My UOA 5w20 vs 5w30. Any guesses?

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
The UOA will tell you next to nothing about wear.


I'm curious. If you really believe this, why are you on BITOG?? After all, the main page of GITOG states in the first paragraph, "By analyzing a sample of used engine oil, you can determine the wear rate, and overall service condition of an engine, along with spotting potential problems and imminent failure before it happens."



First, I don't like your attitude that has been very personal lately.

Second, if you spent some time reading good stuff on BITOG, you would understand that UOA is very limited by detection of only the smallest wear particles. The big wear particles that are usually associated with abnormal wear are usually detected by particle counting and oil filter analysis.

Mind you, BITOG is not just about UOA and you need to learn some more and stop personal attacks.

 

[Eddie]

I suspect as another has said. Any difference will be lost in the noise or variability of the test data.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
AWW, Shucks Pete,
You are telling me I'm gonna waiste $13... Why even bother with it then??

You're getting your UOA for the wrong reasons. UOA is a bad tool for comparing the performance of one oil to another. If that's what you want, save your money.

On the other hand, if you're interested in trending analysis and detecting engine problems such as coolant or fuel leaks, or determining how far you can extend your oil change interval, then it may be money well spent.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
I suspect as another has said. Any difference will be lost in the noise or variability of the test data.


As much as a 1ppm difference for the better might be considered as "room for error" by the lab, the fact that the report showed 1ppm difference is there and can't be denied.

Of course, multiple back to back testing as well as the use of different engines under different conditions/OCIs for further data, i feel a final conclusion can be had in the long run.

My personal UOA testing of 30 vs 20 grade in my 07 Civic EX has showed that the 30 weight produced 1ppm less metal during the same interval / driving conditions.

I'm continuing my back to back testing between 30 & 20 weight oils to see if the same 1ppm difference is present over and over again.

Having said that, i feel the difference is very small. If there was a say... 10ppm difference between 30 vs 20 viscosity, it would be VERY obvious which grade protects better and there would be a huge controversy and it will be all over the news long ago.
Since the difference is so small, we see more and more engines asking for 20 grade oils from the factory since it obviously does a "pretty good" job at protecting the engine's internals.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I suspect as another has said. Any difference will be lost in the noise or variability of the test data.


As much as a 1ppm difference for the better might be considered as "room for error" by the lab, the fact that the report showed 1ppm difference is there and can't be denied.

Of course, multiple back to back testing as well as the use of different engines under different conditions/OCIs for further data, i feel a final conclusion can be had in the long run.

My personal UOA testing of 30 vs 20 grade in my 07 Civic EX has showed that the 30 weight produced 1ppm less metal during the same interval / driving conditions.

I'm continuing my back to back testing between 30 & 20 weight oils to see if the same 1ppm difference is present over and over again.

Having said that, i feel the difference is very small. If there was a say... 10ppm difference between 30 vs 20 viscosity, it would be VERY obvious which grade protects better and there would be a huge controversy and it will be all over the news long ago.
Since the difference is so small, we see more and more engines asking for 20 grade oils from the factory since it obviously does a "pretty good" job at protecting the engine's internals.


Artem: 1ppm is basically noise. Heck, 10ppm is noise. One really cold start could account for a difference more than that. I just don't think you can narrow the focus that tight and "spike the football" over a few ppm.

That said, your testing is still significant. Great apples to apples comparison! If the UOA show the oils statistically equal, that's a good indicator they are. So what you did is very good, I just think your calibration meter is adjusted a little to fine for the situation.

 

[Artem]

Jim i agree that a few ppm is nothing significant and i've had UOA reports sway a few ppm either way all while using the same oil and OCI with an identical driving style / habit.

My 30 vs 20 testing has showed the 30 grade providing the same wear numbers all while being ran 3,000 miles longer then the 20 weight oil.

I'm now running 5w20 in the Civic for 10,000 miles to have more data to directly compare to the 30 weight oil after 10,000 miles. I feel the 5w20 will show slightly more wear @ 10k then the 30 weight did... at least i hope so for my sake/argument. haha.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Jim i agree that a few ppm is nothing significant and i've had UOA reports sway a few ppm either way all while using the same oil and OCI with an identical driving style / habit.

My 30 vs 20 testing has showed the 30 grade providing the same wear numbers all while being ran 3,000 miles longer then the 20 weight oil.

I'm now running 5w20 in the Civic for 10,000 miles to have more data to directly compare to the 30 weight oil after 10,000 miles. I feel the 5w20 will show slightly more wear @ 10k then the 30 weight did... at least i hope so for my sake/argument. haha.


You said "5-20 will show slightly more wear". Is that wear or just PPM?

 

[Artem]

both?

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Artem
both?

There ya go, still, you'd have to really be pushing that thing again to see for sure.

PS: Isn't 5w-20 or 0w-20 originally specified?

 

[Artem]

For the R18 Engine in my 07 Civic EX, yes, 5w20 is the original spec.

I ran SSO 0w30 during the winter and to try and see if it produced better wear numbers...