My "Toyota" 5W-30 to M1 15W-50 test.

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scout

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'05 Toyota Tundra Regular Cab, 4L V6, 6-speed, tow vehicle.

1. The engine is much quieter on 15W-50. I have a good witness. Because it is brand new, I was worried, but it is quiet now. This factor is decisive for me. Regarding the warranty, I'll just trust the engine to last those three years. Then, there won't be a warranty, only the consequences of my decisions to live with.
2. MPG highway, same conditions:
"Toyota" 5W-30 346/14.6 = 23.7 mpg.
Mobil1 15W-50 195/7.9 = 24.7 mpg.
I am posting #2 not as scientific proof, but to show some evidence that is good enough for me that the 15W-50 is not dragging wastefully.

I did not post this to argue about it. There are many threads here that go into the arguments pro and con. I studied those threads, made my decision, and am sharing the results. I'll be nervous until my next oil analysis, but I suspect it will be good.

Thanks, BOBISTHEOILGUY.
 
See my post in the other thread outlining just how 'expensive' a loss in fuel efficiency really is.

Then consider trying a 5W-40, 0W-40, or 'thick' 0W-30 (ie: GC) oil next time to see if you get similar results insofar as acoustics are concerned (nevermind warranty preservation or reduction in upper valvetrain wear during cold starts).
 
I would just let oil analysis be your guide. You never know until you try.

I suspect in the long run you may find Mobil 1 T&S 5W-40 hits the sweet spot on soft metals wear, has higher TBN retention, and may produce lower iron wear than the other M1 formulations.

Many people here just dont seem to pay much attention to the fact that the same engine may spec anything from 5W-20 to 5W-50 (5.4L DOHC Ford being an example) depending on the political and marketing climate where it is being sold. All these engines seem to survive just fine.

Gene
 
quote:
Originally posted by scout:
'05 Toyota Tundra Regular Cab, 4L V6, 6-speed, tow vehicle.

1. The engine is much quieter on 15W-50. I have a good witness. Because it is brand new, I was worried, but it is quiet now. This factor is decisive for me. Regarding the warranty, I'll just trust the engine to last those three years. Then, there won't be a warranty, only the consequences of my decisions to live with.
2. MPG highway, same conditions:
"Toyota" 5W-30 346/14.6 = 23.7 mpg.
Mobil1 15W-50 195/7.9 = 24.7 mpg.
I am posting #2 not as scientific proof, but to show some evidence that is good enough for me that the 15W-50 is not dragging wastefully.

I did not post this to argue about it. There are many threads here that go into the arguments pro and con. I studied those threads, made my decision, and am sharing the results. I'll be nervous until my next oil analysis, but I suspect it will be good.

Thanks, BOBISTHEOILGUY.
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I'm surprised about the engine noise. The only thing I can hear from my 3.4L 4Runner is the injectors.

I'll be surprised if a UOA from the M1 15W-50 shows any better numbers than M1 5W-30 or German Castrol 0W-30. Both of those oils have done really well in my truck...
 
15W-50 is way to heavy. There is no reason to use it. You would need to track milage over several tankfulls to see a difference. And the fact that you are concerned about the decreasing milage....you may have driven easier (on purpose or not) to compensate.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Al:
15W-50 is way to heavy. There is no reason to use it. You would need to track milage over several tankfulls to see a difference. And the fact that you are concerned about the decreasing milage....you may have driven easier (on purpose or not) to compensate.
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Al,

With all due respect......you started your post by knocking this guy's experiment down. If you had only ommitted the first 2 sentences, your post would've been fair.

I used M1 15W-50 and a 50/50 mix of Schaeffer's #132 and Valvoline MEP and wear actually decreased over my run with M1 10W-30. Fuel economy was crappy as heck......just as it has been every summer. Power was the same......or at least not noticeably different than ever before.

Scout,

I totally agree with Gene K! I think Mobil 1 5W-40 T&SUV would hit the nail squared on the head. It is Mobil's BEST oil.......because it is in fact Delvac 1.......confirmed through the MSDS and spec sheets.
I'll be using it in my LS1.

Nevertheless, your wear will be just fine with 15W-50!
 
quote:
Originally posted by Last_Z:
With all due respect......you started your post by knocking this guy's experiment down. If you had only ommitted the first 2 sentences, your post would've been fair.
I totally agree with Gene K! I think Mobil 1 5W-40 T&SUV would hit the nail squared on the head. It is Mobil's BEST oil.......because it is in fact Delvac 1.......confirmed through the MSDS and spec sheets.
I'll be using it in my LS1.

Nevertheless, your wear will be just fine with 15W-50!
Click to expand...
Well mine is just an opinion and everyone knows how opinions are.
smile.gif
But I have seen no evidence on this board that 50 wt. protects any better then 30 wt. And really precious little evidence that 30 wt. protects any better than 20 wt.

And here we are not talking about a 5L GM pushrod engine.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Last_Z:


Scout,

I totally agree with Gene K! I think Mobil 1 5W-40 T&SUV would hit the nail squared on the head. It is Mobil's BEST oil.......because it is in fact Delvac 1.......confirmed through the MSDS and spec sheets.
I'll be using it in my LS1.

Nevertheless, your wear will be just fine with 15W-50!
Click to expand...
From the UOA's here, it's unclear to me if Toyotas show any better wear numbers with oil thicker than the 30 weights. I intend to try a couple of the 40 weights in mine once I get through running the last few 30 weights I want to try...
 
I know I often talk about my familys die hard use of M1 15W50 in all Toyotas. My point is that even with so called "tight" engine they do just fine on an old school heavy viscosity oil!

I have also gone on record as prefeering 5W40 for most vechiles as the best comprimise. I like it because it offers good pumping/cranking for most of the USA even dureing winter and still has good HTHS numbers. 15W50 is great if you live in a southern state. I used to run 15W50 year round in Georgia at Ft. Benning and Ft. Stewart.

I was realy impressed by Redline 5W40 last winter with it's good pumping/cranking in -18F temps. The only problem is that it is hard as heck to find group IV and V 5W40 and I hate mail ordering oil!

I do not think you are going to see any improvment in wear number dureing the winter with 15W50. I am predicting that the wear numbers will not be that much difeent from other weights so long as you climate is moderate. You really see a difference if you push the vechile hard especialy in hot climates.

I will say that you could have a UOA with single digits numbers with 15W50 and it still will not be good enough for most of the people on this site. Most are brainwased into thinking that one should only use 1 weight of oil for all conditions and ambient temps. So while everyone that has tried M1 15W50 has had nothing but good results especialy in Saturns and other GM products it is still considered the evil oil here on bobistheoilguy.

P.S. I am currently trying 0W40 in a Craftsman rideing garden tractor. I am sure you guys can guess how hard it is to start a 20HP Briggs in -18F weather with those little batterys that they come with!

P.P.S. I would love to see a Modular Ford V8 run some Valveoline 5W20 and pass the Dussel Dorf Test!!
 
All thicker oils will quiet the engine down. Doesn't mean it's doing a better job protecting though. We've seen that. For most modern engines, I think ideal viscosisty is anywhere from a upper 20 to lower 40wt oil.
 
quote:
little evidence that 30 wt. protects any better than 20 wt.
Click to expand...
On the subject of 20 vs. 30, here is another one that's good enough for me:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000464;p=1

See the quote on page 2 by TooSlick:
(quote)
Oil Used---Engine Miles---Oil Miles---Pb Concentration, Pb Wear Rate

TSO---23K---12k---24 ppm, 2.0 ppm/1000 miles

HDD---38K---15k---22 ppm, 1.5 ppm/1000 miles
Note: filter changed and 1 qt added after test

HDD---44k---21k---21 ppm, 1.0 ppm/1000 miles

ASL---56k---12k---10 ppm, 0.8 ppm/1000 miles

5w20--62k----6k---32 ppm, 5.3 ppm/1000 miles

Ow20--68k----6k---40 ppm, 6.6 ppm/1000 miles


Britney Spears could trend that data
(end quote)
 
quote:
Originally posted by 2004 F150 4x4:

quote:
little evidence that 30 wt. protects any better than 20 wt.

Click to expand...
web page uoa's on 60 Mod Motors

Hopefully I did this right, if I did you can clearly see 10w-30 outperformed 5w-30 AND 5w-20 in regards to wear metals.
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There were not enough 20 wt posts to compare with. I could drag posts out here where 20 weights had less lead after 4 K miles than 30 weights.
 
scout - first of all (other than sorta ignoring the Toyota recommendation) there is nothing wrong with what you are doing.

However, since you posted I will drop in my .08U$ (inflation)

I can honestly say my Toyota truck absolutely LOVED Amsoil S2000 20W-50 racing earl. Man it was quiet, smooth, flowed quick and MPG change was not detectable.

MPG changes largely due to many factors, it stands to reason that viscosity of fluids may play a role in rolling MPG (any other kind?). The amount of this change is argued constantly here - I think the consensus leans toward: a very minor, if any effect on MPG at all. For the average motorist to keep the major players in MPG constant (driving conditions, weather, tires, fuel, etc) over enough time to detect the difference in oil viscosity can be done, but it is very difficult.

Sign me up in the cornball UOA camp. It would be better to compare the oils on this basis as well.

To keep me in my briefs, I think Toyotas are well served by SYNTHETIC XW-40 oils. (agreeing with some in the crowd)
 
Scout may have hit on something. Originally, I was experiencing a 3/4-second cold-start with my 4.6 Crown Vic using the factory 5W20. I also found that this is a common owner complaint (Not a filter problem). I tried a few different weights including M1 5W-30, 10W-30 Motorcraft, 10W-30 Chevron Supreme, even though 5W-20 was the only "allowed" weight. No cure.
I had previously owned 2 Pre-5W-20 Ford Modular V8s where I used Delo 15W40 and never experienced any cold start knocks, so I put the Delo in my Crown Vic. The knock was gone. The other big surprise was my fuel mileage. I did not change, indicating to me that there are no oil-windage effects with the Ford Modular.
My Dad experienced a similar problem with his GMC Denali. Again, Delo cured the problem.
Could it be that the start-up knocks a lot of us are experiencing are the result of the "new" oils missing the ZDDP and other additives that are still present in the HDEOs?
I'll stick with the HDEOs.
 
If MPG loss isn't an issue, use whatever weight you want.

I prefer a thicker oil. Seems to reduce the "steering wheel shakes" on certain engines.
Also, thicker oils have quieted down many a noisy engine.

I changed from Mobil1(10w30), to GC(0w30), to RotellaT(5w40).
My engine is smoother and quieter with thicker oils. Maybe I should try the 15w50 next time.
 
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:

quote:
All thicker oils will quiet the engine down. Doesn't mean it's doing a better job protecting though. We've seen that.
Click to expand...
Have "We" seen that? I don't remember anyone who said his engine sounded really funky with a thin oil posting a UOA.
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We have seen any number of cases where the UOA's from a heavy oil didn't show any better wear numbers than a lighter one. I don't know that we've seen any data that shows that changing to "quieter oil" oil shows that much different wear numbers, either higher or lower...
 
quote:
We have seen any number of cases where the UOA's from a heavy oil didn't show any better wear numbers than a lighter one. I don't know that we've seen any data that shows that changing to "quieter oil" oil shows that much different wear numbers, either higher or lower...
Click to expand...
Thank you for conmfirming what I said. Lack of data doesn't support any theory.
 
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