My response from Pennzoil concerning moly content

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I emailed them and asked how much moly their conventional high mileage oil contains:

Me:
What's the ppm of molybdenum in Pennzoil High Mileage conventional oil?

Thank you!

Them:
Hello,

The ppm of molybdenum in our Pennzoil High Mileage Conventional Motor Oil 170 ppm.



I'm very impressed by Pennzoil for directly answering my question!!
 
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
This is an older but SN formula.. shows 258 moly..

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/PZHM.htm


I like the looks of that older copper bottle much better with the 258 moly. I wonder why they lowered it? Looks like the current formula is almost identical to Quaker State. Twins maybe?
 
That copper bottle ( pre dexos) PCBHM was one of the best oils I've run.

Miss it.

Didn't like the brass bottle SS dexos.

Even the flathead tecumseh snow blower didnt like it!
 
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
This is an older but SN formula.. shows 258 moly..

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/PZHM.htm


I like the looks of that older copper bottle much better with the 258 moly. I wonder why they lowered it? Looks like the current formula is almost identical to Quaker State. Twins maybe?


Compare the Maxlife to the Quaker State...

http://pqiadata.org/Valvoline_MaxLife_5W30.html
http://pqiadata.org/QuakerState_Defy_HM_5W30.html

Two totally different approaches to additives. I wonder what the secret ingredient is that makes it 'High Mileage' that isnt a marker on any VOA.

Maxlife: "treat unseen issues to maximize the life of your engine. Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage 5W-30 Motor Oil (5 qt) is specially designed to fight the four major causes of engine breakdown: leaks, deposits, friction and sludge"

Perhaps the secret to deposits and sludge is removing additives?
 
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I emailed them and asked how much moly their conventional high mileage oil contains:

Me:
What's the ppm of molybdenum in Pennzoil High Mileage conventional oil?

Thank you!

Them:
Hello,

The ppm of molybdenum in our Pennzoil High Mileage Conventional Motor Oil 170 ppm.



I'm very impressed by Pennzoil for directly answering my question!!

Havoline HiMi is in that same 170ppm range I believe. Likewise i've found Chevron to be very forthcoming with info when you call.
 
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
This is an older but SN formula.. shows 258 moly..

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/PZHM.htm


I like the looks of that older copper bottle much better with the 258 moly. I wonder why they lowered it? Looks like the current formula is almost identical to Quaker State. Twins maybe?

Not all Moly's are created equal. More doesn't mean better.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
That copper bottle ( pre dexos) PCBHM was one of the best oils I've run.

Miss it.

Didn't like the brass bottle SS dexos.

Even the flathead tecumseh snow blower didnt like it!


I agree! My 300ZX loved the old copper bottle Pennzoil. Smoothest running oil I ever used in it.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx

Not all Moly's are created equal. More doesn't mean better.

True and true...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Olas
I'm no chemist but if some 170-200 is good why does Redline use so much more?


Because molybdenum compounds are more than just friction reducers. They also provide anti-wear and anti-oxidant properties.

Also note that companies like Red Line, Driven, and HPL aren't concerned about meeting API requirements for maximum sulfated ash content or limits to certain additives. They don't formulate their oils with the idea of 10,000 mile intervals in the common guy's Toyota Camry. They are worried about keeping high performance engines alive in extreme stress and environments as that's their market.

Your mass companies like Mobil 1, Pennzoil, QS, Castrol, Valvoline, and so on, want to meet API/ILSAC requirements so their oils will get put on the shelves at the big retailers, satisfy the needs of OEMs, and match what customers' manuals say they need. API/ILSAC restricts phosphorus, sulfur, and sulfated ash content because they are worried about damage to emissions systems. Racing engines don't have emissions systems so they don't care to meet those restrictions.

There's also a cost factor. If allowed to, I'm sure the formulators at Pennzoil would love to put 400-800 ppm of trinuclear MoDTC and 1000-1200 ppm of secondary ZDDP in their oils. However, it would also significantly increase the price of the oil on the shelves. The concentration they have currently is sufficient for the needs of the vast majority of customers and is cost effective. One of the reasons Pennzoil and QS uses dinuclear MoDTC in their lower tier oils is due to cost. Dinuclear is much cheaper than trinuclear, even at 2-3x the concentration.
 
Too much can sometimes=it's sitting on the bottom of the oil pan, like Lubro Moly MOS2 has a tendency to do, don't want it dropping out of suspension. Not really a problem in a race engine that gets rebuilt (and new oil) after every run.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why stop at 800pm? How about 1000? 2000? More?

The more is better argument is a false path.


Just don't say that to the minions that are killing thier ticks with high moly, they will laugh fairly hard.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by Olas
I'm no chemist but if some 170-200 is good why does Redline use so much more?


Because molybdenum compounds are more than just friction reducers. They also provide anti-wear and anti-oxidant properties.

Also note that companies like Red Line, Driven, and HPL aren't concerned about meeting API requirements for maximum sulfated ash content or limits to certain additives. They don't formulate their oils with the idea of 10,000 mile intervals in the common guy's Toyota Camry. They are worried about keeping high performance engines alive in extreme stress and environments as that's their market.

Your mass companies like Mobil 1, Pennzoil, QS, Castrol, Valvoline, and so on, want to meet API/ILSAC requirements so their oils will get put on the shelves at the big retailers, satisfy the needs of OEMs, and match what customers' manuals say they need. API/ILSAC restricts phosphorus, sulfur, and sulfated ash content because they are worried about damage to emissions systems. Racing engines don't have emissions systems so they don't care to meet those restrictions.

There's also a cost factor. If allowed to, I'm sure the formulators at Pennzoil would love to put 400-800 ppm of trinuclear MoDTC and 1000-1200 ppm of secondary ZDDP in their oils. However, it would also significantly increase the price of the oil on the shelves. The concentration they have currently is sufficient for the needs of the vast majority of customers and is cost effective. One of the reasons Pennzoil and QS uses dinuclear MoDTC in their lower tier oils is due to cost. Dinuclear is much cheaper than trinuclear, even at 2-3x the concentration.


Very well explained!
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by Olas

Very well explained!
thumbsup2.gif


+1

Red Line has traditionally served the motorsports market - they are based near the town I grew up in and I remember quite fondly seeing RED LINE OIL decals and stickers all over town. They do have a cult following.
 
Originally Posted by burla
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why stop at 800pm? How about 1000? 2000? More?

The more is better argument is a false path.


Just don't say that to the minions that are killing thier ticks with high moly, they will laugh fairly hard.




The answer to that is to not buy a vehicle with a engine that ticks to begin with.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Why stop at 800pm? How about 1000? 2000? More?

The more is better argument is a false path.


M1 0/50 or their 0/30 racing oils have over 1600 ppm, so I guess M1 thinks more is better. ZDDP to.
I run 4 qt's 0/40 and 2 qt's 0/50 racing oil in my car because of the very high piston speed it has(F1 territory).
I've seen way too many F20C and F22C enginge lay waste to there cyl. and pistons. I replaced my head gasket and my cyl's. looked great at 155k miles.

Rod
 
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