My Quest for Good Cheap Oil

[Jeep J]

I think when it comes to these big oil companies, we should trust the things that they mention on the Jug. I mean they are too big to lie, somebody will catch their lie and they will be in legal trouble for false claims.

 

[Nessism1]

I'm sure if you poke around enough here and there, you will be able to find answers to those questions.

You are the person claiming Euro specs are "better". What is the basis of your claim?

 

[Jeep J]

I spent a great deal of time in the BITOG UOA section, comparing wear levels of different brands and normalizing by miles driven in each sample. The end result is that all brands are within the statistical margin of error of the UOA tests.

As long as the oil meets a specification such as Dexos 1 Gen 3 for example, which sets stricter limits on sludge and varnish deposits than API SP, any other differences between brands are not statistically meaningful.

I prefer to do oil analysis the same way new medical treatments are evaluated and tested. Hunches and speculation are prohibited from medical testing. Only scientific evidence that a treatment works is allowed. We should apply the same standards to motor oil.

Assumptions like brand x is better than brand y, because brand x costs more than brand y is faulty reasoning.

But do you think API is as good as FDA? Medical stuff go through way more rigorous testing.

 

[tired]

I bought a cheap pump from Harbor Freight to take a sample from my engine, and I ended up with 150 PPM of Silicon in my UOA. I went cheap and I did not buy one from Blackstone or Oil Analyzer and that's what happened

Skip Blackstone and use Oil Analyzers.

 

[tired]

Yeah, so true. Those two oils have identical approvals yet they are different. So what's the guarantee that Super Tech that has identical approvals is any good. That 400k Jeep on Super Tech says a lot about that Jeep, not Super Tech.

You got it.

 

[Jeep J]

Skip Blackstone and use Oil Analyzers.

This time I will not trust anything, I will take the sample when the oil is draining out, straight to the little container.

 

[Jeep J]

I just need one perfect UOA for my peace of mind, and then I will forget about this oil analysis fever.

 

[tired]

You are the person claiming Euro specs are "better". What is the basis of your claim?

Here's an example of the Porsche testing.

For VW certs, for VW 504 for example, first must meet ACEA C3. Then there are 8 additional VW specific tests. Those are performed on 16 different VW engines. Then must pass the Baumusterprüfung program. Testing time exceeds 10,000 hours. There are specific tests performed that measure wear and engine deposits.

You can see physical and chemical characteristics here. You can look up those specific tests if you'd like more info.

 

[Glenda W.]

You are the person claiming Euro specs are "better". What is the basis of your claim?

This should get you started. The 2019 Afton Handbook. They charge for the current edition I believe.

 

[Jeep J]

My last UOA was awesome except the crazy Silicon. Zero shear on Red Line

 

[Jeep J]

I deliberately abstained from my Tazer to cool my oil temperature and I let oil temperature go crazy high on the trail, but Red Line didn't even care. What a crazy oil. It must take a lot to break down Red Line.

 

[tired]

My last UOA was awesome except the crazy Silicon. Zero shear on Red Line

View attachment 292710

Do you think this is contamination from the sampling? Have you changed your air filter?

I think this is Oil Analyzers btw

 

[Nessism1]

Here's an example of the Porsche testing.

For VW certs, for VW 504 for example, first must meet ACEA C3. Then there are 8 additional VW specific tests. Those are performed on 16 different VW engines. Then must pass the Baumusterprüfung program. Testing time exceeds 10,000 hours. There are specific tests performed that measure wear and engine deposits.

You can see physical and chemical characteristics here. You can look up those specific tests if you'd like more info.

Just because the oil is required to met different tests, that is not evidence that the oil will protect better.

 

[Jeep J]

Do you think this is contamination from the sampling? Have you changed your air filter?

I think this is Oil Analyzers btw

No, I'm super confident about my air filter, it had a thousand miles on it and looked like this. It has to be that stupid pump, what else could it be

But I still went ahead and put a brand new one, for the HPL run. I cleaned the airbox as well with the wet towel.

 

[Jeep J]

I mixed 5.2 quarts of HPL SC 0W-20 in a jug, shook it like crazy, took two samples, one to Blackstone, and one to Oil Analyzer to get a good idea of Aluminum, Iron, Copper and Silicon already in the oil. That jug will go to my Jeep. After 6 months I will take two samples of used oil to Blackstone and Oil Analyzer. Once I get a nice looking UOA, then I am done. Before taking the used oil samples, I will have a long and spirited driving on the highway with a couple of WOT runs, to make sure oil gets mixed and hot. I am determined.

 

[Jeep J]

I got an idea. My first HPL run will be a mess because it will get mixed with some Red Line that is in the engine. So I will take an empty Pennzoil jug, keep it upside down in the Sun, so that all the little remaining oil flows out. Then I will pour five quarts of HPL in it, and shake it like crazy, and then pour that in my Jeep. I will do the same for the second run of HPL. And then once I drain out the second run of HPL, I will take all the oil in that Pennzoil jug, then shake it like crazy, and then I'll take two samples from that for UOA.

 

[Carlostrece]

Not sure if you remember Quaker State in the 1970's. It was known as Quaker Sludge. They cheapened the oil too much and peoples engines were seizing due to sludge. Not sure it's relevant today, but in my opinion, if a company betrays it's customers, 1 strike and you're out.

I don't know if that was true. This is the 1st I've heard of that. Many (incl my old man neighbor) loved QS back then and still do. Regardless of whether that was true in the 70s, this is 55 years later, the oil is new tech, and QS is now part of Shell.

 

[Bill7]

True. In fact even within the Mobil 1 lineup you will find differences between oils with the same approvals. For example, M1 Truck and SUV is extremely shear resistant. M1 EP isn’t as shear resistant but is better for extended drains.

Thanks Glenda. Your post makes me want to learn more about Mobil 1. There are so many different types of Mobil 1, and the prices are very reasonable at Walmart. The Mobil 1 euro oils are very interesting choices (like Mobil 1 ESP), and the full saps FS equivalent.

Would you know which Mobil 1 oils have PAO or Ester in them?

 

[Jeep J]

Thanks Glenda. Your post makes me want to learn more about Mobil 1. There are so many different types of Mobil 1, and the prices are very reasonable at Walmart. The Mobil 1 euro oils are very interesting choices (like Mobil 1 ESP), and the full saps FS equivalent.

Would you know which Mobil 1 oils have PAO or Ester in them?

I did a VOA of their truck and suv 5W30 last week, check that out

 

[mr_boring]

This should get you started. The 2019 Afton Handbook. They charge for the current edition I believe.

1200 posts on here and somehow missed the dozens if not hundreds of discussions about Euro spec. You fed him well but......