My Opinion on New Car Oil Changes

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: alwayson
Simple question. Have you done a first oil change yourself?

No. I buy my cars used, just like your X5. Did you make sure that the previous owner changed its oil at 500, 1000, and 3000 miles?

None of my cars ever experienced any oil-related issues throughout their life.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: supton
I take it you did an analysis to determine that there was metal in the oil? Seems odd in this day and age to "need" to do an early oil change. I wonder if maybe it was stuff that had settled into the pan that you saw? Large chunks unlikely to get sucked up by the pump, and if they were, extremely likely to be filtered out?


Actually a boat load of metal is the norm. Thats why many people recommend changing at 500 miles.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: alwayson
Simple question. Have you done a first oil change yourself?

No. I buy my cars used



There you go.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: alwayson
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: alwayson
Simple question. Have you done a first oil change yourself?

No. I buy my cars used



There you go.

You haven't convinced me. My experience (and that of many others) does not support your opinion. But again, you're free to change your oil as frequently as you'd like, just as long as you don't suggest that all others should follow.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

You haven't convinced me. My experience (and that of many others) does not support your opinion.


Who are your many others?

You've never seen an early oil change recommended at 500 miles or 1000 miles?

What I'm suggesting is merely the mainstream advice my friend.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
any other time anyone sees any sort of metal particles in their engine oil its a big deal and people start to panic. but when the engine is new it ok to have metal floating around for the full regular cycle before an oil change? someone want to explain the logic to me. i agree change the oil after 500 miles then a 1000 after that i would just do the regular amount though minus the 1000 so if i was changing it every 5000 i would change it at 500mi 1,000 and 5,000 and the 10,000 and so on.
when my mom bought her new focus that's what i did. there was break in metal. both times. and we can argue all day that small pieces of metal wont hurt anything. but at the end of the day chunks of metal do not lubricate and cannot do any good. maybe they don't do harm either but they darn sure don't do any good so why keep them in there?


Yup I agree. Once you've seen the horror with your own eyes, you know better.

Good post!!

 

[Hermann]

This boyz in the 3K, 6K, 10K then every 5K thereafter on this neverending subject. IMO not yours, any more frequent than this is a waste of natural resources.

Probably 90%+ of cars never get their first change till the MM goes off. And most eventually end up at the Buy here, Pay Here lots with 100K on them.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
What about the FF being fortified with the assembly lube?? Do you feel that the engine misses the complete moly polishing effect by changing it out early??

Also, what is your opinion on using synthetic oil as a break-in oil??

Honda publicly announced that for MY 2011, they changed oil control rings and added moly-impregnated piston skirts to all engines, both fours and sixes. This seemed to be in response to oil consumption issues, at least with their VCM V6. The factory and dealer's insistence on leaving the FF in is no doubt based on the moly added to the piston skirts which presumably gradually releases into the oil stream over some period of time. My used oil analysis showed 359 ppm Moly and otherwise looked like off the shelf Honda brand oil.

 

[Jim Allen]

If there were a great number of particles in the oil that you could see with the naked eye, that is very abnormal and, if that's what you really saw, big trouble could be brewing. No insult there, just pointing out the possibility of misinterpretation. Go to the used oil analysis sections and you will find a few used oil analysis of factory fill oils. They are chock full of metal, sure, but too small or few to be seen by the naked eye.

Most of the break in takes place in the first 100 miles, so IMO, that first 500 mile dump is the important one. That's also the time when the Type I contamination (the dirt and manufacturing debris) can be flushed out. After that, the a short "severe service" interval followed by normal.

What I have gleaned on the long factory fill intervals is that, a) they are assembling engines better now, so they don't have to "wear in" as much and, b) they are much cleaner in manufacturing them. I have been on several engine lines in the past few years and compared to some I toured in the '80s, they are NASA clean rooms.

My last new car (a 2000 MY Honda we still have) got a 1000 mile FF change followed by a 3000 mile change. If today I had a new car that specified a normal first change, most likely I could not stop myself from doing an early change.... but I acknowledge it would be an emotional response. Intellectually, I can accept a longer interval, knowing what I know. But one side of my brain is resolute on the topic ... the other a quivering mass of jello, both vying to control the hands.

 

[Quattro Pete]

The subject of early FF changes has been debated here on BITOG on numerous occasions in the past. Every time with the same result = no consensus. You'll have people arguing for and against each case. Due to lack of scientific evidence for or against, this will never get solved. So that's why I say, do whatever makes you feel better and move on.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
If there were a great number of particles in the oil that you could see with the naked eye, that is very abnormal and, if that's what you really saw, big trouble could be brewing. No insult there, just pointing out the possibility of misinterpretation.


Actually its the norm.

I've seen it on all my new cars from various manufacturers.

I guess you are another one who has never done the first oil change yourself.

Why do you think people recommend changing the oil at 500 or 1000 for this very reason.

Surely I am not the first one who has ever said this stuff LOL.

 

[Dakota1820]

thanks, im not the norm though . i also think just because the manufacturer says something doesn't mean its right. example my saturn manual says after 5,000 miles drain the manual transmission fluid and then its good for life. well i was getting hard shifting so i changed the fluid and it was back to shifting smooth. the manufactures say to use oil that is very thin. i think its just for mpg. they do everything they can to get that extra .000001 mpg. im not convinced that 0w20 is thick enough for an engine to live 300,000 miles. it probably happens but i don't think it will happen as often as a car run on a thicker grade like 10w30. in severe cold a 0 or 5 w30 or preferably 40 is better imo. but people think just because they build the car they know whats best the problem with that logic is they dont always give you the info with the first priority being reliability and durability. its usually fuel mileage and making the changing of fluids happen less often for convenience just my .2cents

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: alwayson
Originally Posted By: exranger06

And did you suffer any reliability or wear problems because of it? Again, why can Hondas do it no problem but other makes can't?


Well I'll never buy a Honda again. No horsepower. [censored] quality. Window motor broke, alignment is thrown off just by looking at it, absolutely zero noise insulation etc.

You didn't answer my question at all.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The subject of early FF changes has been debated here on BITOG on numerous occasions in the past. Every time with the same result = no consensus. You'll have people arguing for and against each case. Due to lack of scientific evidence for or against, this will never get solved. So that's why I say, do whatever makes you feel better and move on.


But the point isn't to "solve" the issue. It's to exchange information on a continually changing market and besides, it's one of the more fun topics to discuss. I've been DIYing on cars and motorcycles for over 40 years and was always an 'early change' guy. Participating in threads like this plus doing some of my first used oil analysis have opened my eyes to the benefits, value and safety of extended OCIs. My 2011 Honda was the first vehicle that I allowed to go to the full factory recommended first OC, so you can credit discussions like this with teaching this old dog some new tricks. I'm now facing the same decision with my new Toyota who wants me to let it go to 10,000 with no MM, so the manufacturers are continuing to push the envelope farther and farther. I, for one, am interested in this ongoing exchange of ideas and experience so, ignore such threads if you don't care for them but there's no need to try to shut them down.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: alwayson
Originally Posted By: exranger06

And did you suffer any reliability or wear problems because of it? Again, why can Hondas do it no problem but other makes can't?


Well I'll never buy a Honda again. No horsepower. [censored] quality. Window motor broke, alignment is thrown off just by looking at it, absolutely zero noise insulation etc.

You didn't answer my question at all.


Well the engine always vibrates excessively IMO.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: alwayson
So unless you have a Honda, which is a special exception, this is what I recommend:

change oil and filter at 500 miles
change oil and filter at 1000 miles
change oil and filter at 3000 miles
change oil and filter at 7000 miles

Based on what?

There is no evidence that doing the first oil change at the regularly scheduled interval is going to cause your engine to prematurely explode.


Well, his suggestion might have been good at one time. And it certainly holds some validity for a rebuild. Popular Mechanics used to suggest something similar for new vehicles many year back. Now, they only suggest it for when you get the engine rebuilt.

Originally Posted By: alwayson
Did the manual say it didn't need to be changed, or explicitly warned against changing like Honda does?


I'm assuming Nissan and Infiniti are the same on the issue. My Infiniti (which I got used, and maintenance records show was done according to the severe service 3750 mile OCI, even with the FF) manual only says it doesn't need to be changed. There's no explicit warning like in the Hondas.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
But the point isn't to "solve" the issue. It's to exchange information on a continually changing market

I don't know. I've seen so many of these early FF change threads in recent years and they all look exactly like this one. There is no valid evidence or scientific data in any of them to help one change their strongly held belief. I am not going to convince alwayson and alwayson is not going to convince me.

But by all means, people are free to discuss. It's an internet forum afterall. Carry on.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
There is no valid evidence or scientific data in any of them to help one change their strongly held belief. I am not going to convince alwayson and alwayson is not going to convince me.


You don't think a bunch of metal particles going through a car is bad?

Or do you doubt the metal particles are even there?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: alwayson
You don't think a bunch of metal particles going through a car is bad?

Or do you doubt the metal particles are even there?

I don't doubt that you saw something there. What I'm saying is that there is no evidence (that I've seen) that this will lead to premature engine failure for as long as I care to own the car.

 

[alwayson]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: alwayson
You don't think a bunch of metal particles going through a car is bad?

Or do you doubt the metal particles are even there?

I don't doubt that you saw something there. What I'm saying is that there is no evidence (that I've seen) that this will lead to premature engine failure for as long as I care to own the car.



People say the same thing about marijuana.

But inhaling a bunch of hot smoke cannot be good for the lungs.

Lung cancer is especially nasty, so why risk it?