my newest gas stabilization experiment

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friendly_jacek

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As some may remember, I did a study last summer on gas stabilization: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2669691#Post2669691

I repeated it again with more different gas additives (total of 9 test jars). After 2 months of study there is nothing to report. Every jar turned yellow quickly (within a couple of weeks) and now after 2 months it's orange and thick, but with no significant deposits, including control.

I'm shocked to be honest. Here are the possible explanations that come to mind.

1. It's colder now. True, but the first month had as many hot days as the summer study that started in late spring. Only the last month had colder temps (especially night time).

2. I used different gas for experiments. The first study used BP gas and the new study used Shell gas (I don't buy BP anymore after the BP credit card fiasco).

Now, I'm thinking the whole study was wrong from the get go. I should have set a study of different brands of gas without additives in the first place to see what brand is prone to produce the deposits followed by an additives study.

Seeing the green deposits in my first study in a control jar with BP and the same deposits in my boat carb, I'm thinking BP gas was my problem in the first place.

Does anyone know if top tier requires gas stabilization additives?
 
I would say that E-anything requires stabilization additives. Boats seem to all have open fuel systems vented to the atmosphere, unlike sealed cars & trucks-that's got to be a disadvantage no matter whether it's pure gas or gasohol.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline


and

Quote:
Stability

Quality gasoline should be stable almost indefinitely if stored properly. Such storage should be in an airtight container, to prevent oxidation or water vapors mixing, and at a stable cool temperature to reduce the chance of the container's leaking. When gasoline is not stored correctly, gums and solids may accumulate, resulting in "stale fuel". The presence of these degradation products in fuel tank, lines, and carburetor or fuel injection components, make it harder to start the engine. Upon resumption of regular vehicle usage, the buildups should eventually be cleaned out by the flow of fresh petrol. A fuel stabilizer can be used to extend the life of fuel that is not or cannot be stored properly. Fuel stabilizer is commonly used for small engines, such as lawnmower and tractor engines, to promote quicker and more reliable starting. Users have been advised to keep gasoline containers more than half full and properly capped to reduce air exposure, to avoid storage at high temperatures, to run an engine for ten minutes to circulate the stabilizer through all components prior to storage, and to run the engine at intervals to purge stale fuel from the carburetor.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I would say that E-anything requires stabilization additives. Boats seem to all have open fuel systems vented to the atmosphere, unlike sealed cars & trucks-that's got to be a disadvantage no matter whether it's pure gas or gasohol.


I checked for alcohol before the study and shell did have ~6% ethanol: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2622214&page=4
 
This is the image of control with Shell gas, no deposits after 2 months of exposure to oxygen in sunlight ambient temps. The other study jars look similar or same.



photo1.jpg
 
Maybe you should purchase plastic chemical bottles with plastic lids made to not interact with the chemical that is stored in it.

I question weather the seal on the lid of glass jars would interact with gasoline, and I strongly suspect that it did in the experiment you did. In other words the experiment was probably contaminated by the seal of the lid on the jars you used.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Maybe you should purchase plastic chemical bottles with plastic lids made to not interact with the chemical that is stored in it.

I question weather the seal on the lid of glass jars would interact with gasoline, and I strongly suspect that it did in the experiment you did. In other words the experiment was probably contaminated by the seal of the lid on the jars you used.


Lids were never in contact with liquid gasoline, only vapors. The jars were vented regularly. I'm not sure how that implied contamination happened. Care to elaborate?
 
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
What is the rust coloured stuff on the right hand side?


The orange colored fluid is stale gasoline. There is no rust.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Maybe you should purchase plastic chemical bottles with plastic lids made to not interact with the chemical that is stored in it.

I question weather the seal on the lid of glass jars would interact with gasoline, and I strongly suspect that it did in the experiment you did. In other words the experiment was probably contaminated by the seal of the lid on the jars you used.



Lids were never in contact with liquid gasoline, only vapors. The jars were vented regularly. I'm not sure how that implied contamination happened. Care to elaborate?


It is a natural convection refrigeration cycle. Vapors leave the liquid and condense on the lid into a thin film of liquid that runs down the side of the glass back into the gasoline in the jar. That cycle will carry with it some of the seal material from the lid if it can't withstand exposure to the gasoline. And over time some of the seal from the jar will end up in the gasoline.

I once conducted an experiment to see if Teflon tape could be desolved by a certain solvent. I put the Teflon tape and solvent in a mason jar and put the lid on the jar and left it on a shelf for a few weeks. The Teflon tape was not harmed, but the seal of the lid was damaged and contaminated the solvent. And the liquid was way below the seal of the jar.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
If you want to conduct the experiment properly, you will require containers that do not have seals that are damaged by gasoline.


Fair enough, I went outside and checked the lids:

1. The lids are not wet from the condensation inside (it's cold now).
2. The seals are not dissolved, softened, hardened, or otherwise damaged.

So, what exactly is the result those (hypothetically only) damaged seals would produce in my experiment?
 
If the gasoline had attacked the seal so as to absorb some of it, then the seal probably would appear soft, or swollen, or discolored, compared to what it looked like new.

I never tried mason-jars with gasoline, so it may be that the seals on your jars did not contaminate the experiment.

If the seals appear the same as they were before you use them with the gasoline then there probably was not any interaction.

I was not trying to be aggressive in any comment I made about the seals contaminating the experiment. I was just concerned that possibly the results could be off do to possible seal interacting.

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BTW, I rotate my gasoline stock twice a year. The last time I did that was towards the end of last month (put summer stock in a vehicle to free 2.5 gallon jugs for winter stock), and the summer gasoline treated width Sta-Bil had a slight brown color to it.

I remember in the spring when I put last winters gasoline treated with Sta-Bil in the vehicles. Some of the 2.5 red plastic jugs of gasoline had a slight brown color to the gasoline, and some were so clear you would think it was water from some spring. I remember thinking if I did not know any better I would think that I was adding water to the gas tank. That had me wondering about how clear the gasoline was from the stations I bought it from. For winter stock I store 55 gallons in 22 two an a half gallon red plastic gas jugs. I use the grocery store discount that gives a discount up to 30 gallons at a time. So I make two separate trips. I put one ounce of Sta-Bil in each jug and then fill each with 2.5 gallons of gas. Rite now I have 30 gallons of winter gas that I purchase the last week of September. By the end of November the discount card will have accumulated enough for me to purchase the remainder 25 gallons at a discount.

I will admit I was wondering about some jugs having gas that was somewhat brown, and others being crystal clear.
 
how did you clean the jars BEFORE the test? my idea, that gasoline, only part of what is in gasoline will evaporate, and some of the stuff in gasoline will not evaporate. why do i say this. from my many years of working on carburetors.
 
Originally Posted By: morris
how did you clean the jars BEFORE the test? my idea, that gasoline, only part of what is in gasoline will evaporate, and some of the stuff in gasoline will not evaporate. why do i say this. from my many years of working on carburetors.


Believe, me the jars were clean before the study.

As for the evaporation, of course fresh gasoline evaporates fully. It's the stale, oxidized gasoline that produces deposits.
 
Last fall ('11) I took a cleaned Gumout Regane bottle and filled it with gasoline, capped it and set it on the shelf in my unheated garage until April. Mainly looking to see if any ethanol separation would occur but after 6 months nothing at all was visible, no separation or color change.
 
If it was sealed and not exposed to the elements, of course nothing happened. My study is looking to duplicate what happens in a vented carb.
 
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