Stabil works or not, no objective studies?

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Does a bottle of Stabil have an expiration/use by date on it?


Typically, a bottle of red Stabil can last over 2+yrs of shelf life.

Once opened: Sta-bil recommends using it up before 2 years.

Q.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: ahoier
pics4truth

Here are some pictures at the 2 weeks point.
Brass screws (threads wrapped in aluminum foil). This simulates corrosion of brass jets in aluminium carb. From right to left: TWC3, Stabil, Seafoam, no additives (control), MMO, Stabil+Seafoam. TWC3 was dosed at 10% (Mercuriser fogging recipe), the adder additives dosed in gasoline per the official instructions. Note obvious corrosion in MMO and possible corrosion in TWC3. There was some fungus like growth on aluminium in MMO and Stabil+Seafoam. The best srews were in Stabil and pure gas.

Here is a parallel experiment on what happens when gas dries in a carb with Stabil in it. I was surprised to see that Stabil evaporated completely from this small jar leaving a film of residue. That probably was my problem with using Stabil, not draining carb after use, and allowing gas to evaporate from the carb.

 

[doitmyself]

Friendly,

When I studied fuel stabilizers 2 -3 years ago, the Pri-G website had TONS of "research findings, white papers, product comparisons" that almost convinced me their product was from heaven. They had findings comparing many other products, including Star Tron, Stabil, Sea Foam, etc.. Pri G outshined everything according to all the tests, tables, graphs, etc..

Just a year ago +/-, I noticed that they pulled all of the "research" stuff and have DRASTICALLY toned down their "research" marketing comparing their product to everything else.

The Pri G research you posted appears to be a relic of the old marketing from a supplier link (not Pri G itself).

The old marketing (your link): http://www.kansaswindpower.net/PRI lab_tests.htm

The new marketing: http://www.priproducts.com/pdfs/PRI-G & FUEL STABILITY.pdf

Notice no comparison of other products? The old marketing also had outlandish claims of phase separation prevention that has disappeared from their website.

I agree with your title, there is no objective literature available comparing fuel stabilizers.

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Does a bottle of Stabil have an expiration/use by date on it?


Typically, a bottle of red Stabil can last over 2+yrs of shelf life.

Once opened: Sta-bil recommends using it up before 2 years.

Q.

That kind of begs the question of how how much can it extend the life of gas if it itself only lasts 2 years.

 

[friendly_jacek]

I found good discussion on old cars forum that explains why I'm having problems with Stabil. That explanation agrees with my Stabil evaporation experiment.

Quote:
Sta-Bil will, if the carb dries out of gasoline in, say, six months, leave a hard varnish/goo that necessitates disassembly and cleaning of the carb before use.


http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=118802&post=278496

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I found good discussion on old cars forum that explains why I'm having problems with Stabil.


Good grief. Is there any way to win short of cleaning the carb and tucking it into bed at the end of the season?

I've had good luck with Stabil. I've had good luck without Stabil, too, so in short, I don't know either.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

Here is a parallel experiment on what happens when gas dries in a carb with Stabil in it. I was surprised to see that Stabil evaporated completely from this small jar leaving a film of residue. That probably was my problem with using Stabil, not draining carb after use, and allowing gas to evaporate from the carb.


So, after reading your posts, you have not concluded whether or not Stabil does it's intended job of oxidation and corrosion control.

You have demonstrated, however, that if Stabil treated gasoline is left open to evaporate, then a varnish film remains. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that one should not let their carburators evaporate dry with Stabil treated fuel in them.

You should repeat the test with plain gasoline(a control)as well as with gas treated with other products.

If you find a product that does not result in a varnish layer, then you still have to determine if that product is effective at delaying oxidation and corrosion.

It would be interesting to write each company and ask if their product is designed to prevent varnish residue upon complete evaporation.

Also, I need to learn.....is it common for gas to evaporate out of carburators? Anyone know?

Keep us posted on your results, please. Knock on wood, but using very modest fuel management practices, I have not yet had any E-10 catastrophic failures...knock on wood again.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Does a bottle of Stabil have an expiration/use by date on it?


Typically, a bottle of red Stabil can last over 2+yrs of shelf life.

Once opened: Sta-bil recommends using it up before 2 years.

Q.

That kind of begs the question of how how much can it extend the life of gas if it itself only lasts 2 years.

So, what is your point?!

Remember this: nothing lasts forever on this planet earth (except inert gas and precious metals). Gasoline, gasoline additives, etc. are made to be volatile(unstable) so why is it so hard for you to accept this as a fact?

Also: additives or not: you should find a means to use up those gasoline (doped/not doped) as soon as possible. Don't assume that gasoline can be in chemically-stable storage condition for over a year or 2 w/o suffering from chemical decomposition.

come to think of it: why US strategic oil reserves come in crude (unrefined) form and not processed form?!

Q.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself

So, after reading your posts, you have not concluded whether or not Stabil does it's intended job of oxidation and corrosion control.

You have demonstrated, however, that if Stabil treated gasoline is left open to evaporate, then a varnish film remains. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that one should not let their carburators evaporate dry with Stabil treated fuel in them.

You should repeat the test with plain gasoline(a control)as well as with gas treated with other products.

If you find a product that does not result in a varnish layer, then you still have to determine if that product is effective at delaying oxidation and corrosion.

It would be interesting to write each company and ask if their product is designed to prevent varnish residue upon complete evaporation.

Also, I need to learn.....is it common for gas to evaporate out of carburators? Anyone know?

Keep us posted on your results, please. Knock on wood, but using very modest fuel management practices, I have not yet had any E-10 catastrophic failures...knock on wood again.

The other tests are in progress. Too early to know the oxidation results. This may take 1-2 months longer.

As for carb evaporation, my carb has a large bowl vent that allows vapors to escape. Carbs are never air tight by design.

I'm told it takes 6 months for a carb to turn dry. In my case it's much faster, 1-2 months, based on difficulty starting after some inactivity.

Unfortunately, my carb cannot be run dry completely or drained. Based on my results so far, I'm leaning towards no additives or Seafom or TCW3 additives.

 

[AuthorEditor]

I have read the suggestion that if you have a problem with your carburetor drying out you should still use the stabilized fuel, but start and run the engine periodically or insure that fuel is pumped into the carb. As long as the float bowl contains liquid fuel you are OK. Myself, on motorcycles and small outboards with carbs., I have not had a problem with the carb. drying out over the winter, and StaBil seems to keep the fuel in decent shape for six cool months. For the first tank in the spring I usually take a shortish run and then top off with hi-test gas in order to bring the octane up a bit.

 

[AuthorEditor]

I found this website with a test similar to the one you are conducting, but he specifically looked at marine fuel treatments. I thought it was interesting. Fuel additive test

 

[RTexasF]

I just spent $77 for a lawnmower repair due to bad gas that was two weeks old (in the gas can) and treated with the correct amount of Sta-Bil. It did not work for me with 10% ethanol fuel at all. I poured it in the car with the lousy gas (only a gallon or so), switched fuel brands and treated with the marine formula of Sta-Bil. No problems since but we shall see if that continues.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Seems unlikely it was the StaBil that was the problem if the gas was only two weeks old. Gas that new should be fine without an stabilizer in it, ethanol or not. It must have had a load of water or crud in it to begin with.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
I found this website with a test similar to the one you are conducting, but he specifically looked at marine fuel treatments. I thought it was interesting. Fuel additive test


Very interesting read indeed. Many thanks for the link. Not sure how the gas lasted 1 year in open (he said vented) jars. I keep mine closed, but vent once 1-2 days to get access to oxygen. I also plan to evaporate gas fully and thus I used only small amounts in the bottom of the jars. My experiment is rather to duplicate carb deposits (or lack thereof) with different additives.

However, there is one observation in his study that agrees with my results and that is growth of fungi/algae in the separated water phase. I noticed that especially in MMO jar. Somehow MMO promotes that growth and I will never use it in my boat as fuel additive (it's too corrosive to brass too).

 

[AuthorEditor]

In several tests like this I have seen SolTron has done very well, especially in not leaving deposits behind. Here's a link to a test in Practical Sailor: Practical Sailor Test

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Gas that new should be fine without an stabilizer in it, ethanol or not. It must have had a load of water or crud in it to begin with.


And, if it's shot already, there's nothing that a stabilizer can do to bring it back up to spec.

 

[Vikas]

>I just spent $77 for a lawnmower repair due to bad gas that was two weeks old (in the gas can)

I am sure somebody took $77 from you and told you that it was bad gas but that does not make it so.

- Vikas

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
>I just spent $77 for a lawnmower repair due to bad gas that was two weeks old (in the gas can)

I am sure somebody took $77 from you and told you that it was bad gas but that does not make it so.

- Vikas


Yup! That's typical of most small engine shops I've came across, citing that it's easy to lay causal blame on gas or someone else's fault than taking a deeper look and try to get down to the bottom of the matter.

And the even more funny part is: there are avg joes that believe in the "excuses" that most of their mechs or shops throw at them w/o thinking it logically...

My 2c's worth.

Q.

 

[AuthorEditor]

I will say this, many small engine problems are caused by carburetor problems related to small bits of dirt or crud getting in and plugging up one of the teensy jets in there, but it can often be cured by a carb. cleaning. It's a good idea to run all of your gas through a filter funnel at some stage, and if possible to fit an inline fuel filter.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
In several tests like this I have seen SolTron has done very well, especially in not leaving deposits behind. Here's a link to a test in Practical Sailor: Practical Sailor Test


You really know how to google well.

I didn't learn much from this study as they mostly concluded that phase separation cannot be avoided by most additives. I knew that and it wasn't my focus.

They actually stated there was no biologic growth in gasoline, but the other study and my own experiments proved otherwise.

I'm actually thinking now that most of carb deposits are not caused by gasoline oxidation, but rather biofilm growth in separated water after gas and alcohol evaporates first. That would also explain corrosion.