Civic,
Much more to taxes than just sales tax.
Much more to taxes than just sales tax.
My local NAPA store...
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Business pays no taxes. It only collects them.
I'll bite. Not necessarily & not all of them. They are costs to the business. They decide whether to pass 100% on to the customer or not.
Business pays no taxes. It only collects them.
I'll bite. Not necessarily & not all of them. They are costs to the business. They decide whether to pass 100% on to the customer or not.
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Yes, I was serious.
Here's yet another serious question... Have you ever run a business?
Have you?
Since you've chosen to answer a question with a question, then I'll just assume that means that your answer is "no".
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Yes, I was serious.
Here's yet another serious question... Have you ever run a business?
Have you?
Since you've chosen to answer a question with a question, then I'll just assume that means that your answer is "no".
The tax structure in Washington can be a real killer. The sales tax in Carnation is "only" 8.6 %. Try other parts of King County where it is 9.5 %. Believe it or not, there are those who say it is not high enough. Sure, you collect it from your customers, but the business that hits a slump soon finds itself unable to pay over the sales tax one month. The next month is worse, with penalties and soon they aren't paying the withholding and social security taxes over to the IRS. Since these are trust fund taxes, the government gets really nasty about collecting them from the business, and they should get nasty.
On top of the need to pay over the trust fund taxes promptly, there is B & O tax in Washington. This is an income tax you pay whether or not you make a profit. You pay it on gross sales. Then there is the industrial insurance. I still haven't even mentioned property tax. Nor have I mentioned the highest minimum wage in the nation. Don't get the idea the business is not affected by the minimum wage law if it pays more. Higher minimum wage laws raise the pay of all workers more than you might think.
Then you have all the regulations the business has to comply with. This means more money for the greedy CPA, greedy lawyer and other greedy consultants.
Darn hard to keep a business going these days.
BTW, I am one of the greedy CPAs. We get regulated beyond our wildest dreams these days too. On top of that we have to contend with constantly changing laws, especially tax laws. On top of that, the gross income tax we pay is over three times as high as the gross income tax paid by that auto parts store.
All this without even mentioning the big box stores and the evil empire.
The Carnation Napa guy has my full sympathy.
On top of the need to pay over the trust fund taxes promptly, there is B & O tax in Washington. This is an income tax you pay whether or not you make a profit. You pay it on gross sales. Then there is the industrial insurance. I still haven't even mentioned property tax. Nor have I mentioned the highest minimum wage in the nation. Don't get the idea the business is not affected by the minimum wage law if it pays more. Higher minimum wage laws raise the pay of all workers more than you might think.
Then you have all the regulations the business has to comply with. This means more money for the greedy CPA, greedy lawyer and other greedy consultants.
Darn hard to keep a business going these days.
BTW, I am one of the greedy CPAs. We get regulated beyond our wildest dreams these days too. On top of that we have to contend with constantly changing laws, especially tax laws. On top of that, the gross income tax we pay is over three times as high as the gross income tax paid by that auto parts store.
All this without even mentioning the big box stores and the evil empire.
The Carnation Napa guy has my full sympathy.
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Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Business pays no taxes. It only collects them.
I'll bite. Not necessarily & not all of them. They are costs to the business. They decide whether to pass 100% on to the customer or not.
They have no choice. Otherwise, they're not in business or healthy enough to be a business.
I faced all this too. Just my personal tax obligations were cumbersome. If you're a small business, you're legally embezzling much more than the average consumer who's working for wages. Many times more. Typically your car, auto insurance, repairs, lease payments ...and all and everything you can throw on the "costs" end of things is written off.
Managing all that without writing yourself into bankruptcy is the skill some lack. Small business owners can just as easily live beyond their means and have some notion of a given entitlement of lifestyle.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Business pays no taxes. It only collects them.
I'll bite. Not necessarily & not all of them. They are costs to the business. They decide whether to pass 100% on to the customer or not.
They have no choice. Otherwise, they're not in business or healthy enough to be a business.
I faced all this too. Just my personal tax obligations were cumbersome. If you're a small business, you're legally embezzling much more than the average consumer who's working for wages. Many times more. Typically your car, auto insurance, repairs, lease payments ...and all and everything you can throw on the "costs" end of things is written off.
Managing all that without writing yourself into bankruptcy is the skill some lack. Small business owners can just as easily live beyond their means and have some notion of a given entitlement of lifestyle.
Gary,
There are always at least 2 choices. You even said it yourself but I don't think it is always that clear cut. New tax will be applied Jan-1 that will add 0.25%. I can choose to only pass 0.2% to my customer thinking that the competition will pass on 0.25%. This cuts down on my profit but I may have the leg up on my competition. What am I missing? I have a simple mind.
There are always at least 2 choices. You even said it yourself but I don't think it is always that clear cut. New tax will be applied Jan-1 that will add 0.25%. I can choose to only pass 0.2% to my customer thinking that the competition will pass on 0.25%. This cuts down on my profit but I may have the leg up on my competition. What am I missing? I have a simple mind.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan}
If you're a small business, you're legally embezzling much more than the average consumer who's working for wages. Many times more. Typically your car, auto insurance, repairs, lease payments ...and all and everything you can throw on the "costs" end of things is written off.
Plaease call my accountant and tell him how to get me on this program. My G8 is on my books, the only tax component to it is that pro rata part that has a direct business purpose, and that can be documented. And if I sell it for more than my book value, I'll have to pay tax on the gain.
The only benefit or perk a small business owner gets is one that he can provide himself, and he has to do it while implementing all of the government's goofy feel good social policies and agendas and collecting and remitting their confiscatory tax rates.
Know why so many people are unemployed? It's because so many small business owners have had a belly full of government at all levels, and have moved on to less employee intensive endeavors. And it's about to get far worse.
If you're a small business, you're legally embezzling much more than the average consumer who's working for wages. Many times more. Typically your car, auto insurance, repairs, lease payments ...and all and everything you can throw on the "costs" end of things is written off.
Plaease call my accountant and tell him how to get me on this program. My G8 is on my books, the only tax component to it is that pro rata part that has a direct business purpose, and that can be documented. And if I sell it for more than my book value, I'll have to pay tax on the gain.
The only benefit or perk a small business owner gets is one that he can provide himself, and he has to do it while implementing all of the government's goofy feel good social policies and agendas and collecting and remitting their confiscatory tax rates.
Know why so many people are unemployed? It's because so many small business owners have had a belly full of government at all levels, and have moved on to less employee intensive endeavors. And it's about to get far worse.
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Quote:
Plaease call my accountant and tell him how to get me on this program.
It's not any program that you're probably not already on. It's just that you don't perceive the benefits of the write off's as note worthy. If you're in that position then, GOD bless you, you've arrived and I really can't identify with your pain other than it being a minor burden compared to those who it would mean something.
How much of my tax burden is neutralized due to me owning a multi-unit property, even if I lose money at it, so to speak? Stuff that everyone else has to take on the chin is something I can deduct on top of debt service.
The only reason someone wouldn't view that as advantageous is if those items were only chump change to them ...and again I really can't identify with your plea for relief.
That's not to say that the hassle of taxes is nothing of merit ..and YES, it appears to have some really annoying aspect to it where your gross revenue is reduced to a net revenue ...but that goes with the turf. If you want to get rid of all the confetti that clouds the issues, support something like a national sales tax. There all costs would be merely collected by business in the purest sense.
Plaease call my accountant and tell him how to get me on this program.
It's not any program that you're probably not already on. It's just that you don't perceive the benefits of the write off's as note worthy. If you're in that position then, GOD bless you, you've arrived and I really can't identify with your pain other than it being a minor burden compared to those who it would mean something.
How much of my tax burden is neutralized due to me owning a multi-unit property, even if I lose money at it, so to speak? Stuff that everyone else has to take on the chin is something I can deduct on top of debt service.
The only reason someone wouldn't view that as advantageous is if those items were only chump change to them ...and again I really can't identify with your plea for relief.
That's not to say that the hassle of taxes is nothing of merit ..and YES, it appears to have some really annoying aspect to it where your gross revenue is reduced to a net revenue ...but that goes with the turf. If you want to get rid of all the confetti that clouds the issues, support something like a national sales tax. There all costs would be merely collected by business in the purest sense.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Plaease call my accountant and tell him how to get me on this program.
It's not any program that you're probably not already on.
It sounds like you haven't been introduced to the counter program known as alternative minimum tax!
Quote:
Plaease call my accountant and tell him how to get me on this program.
It's not any program that you're probably not already on.
It sounds like you haven't been introduced to the counter program known as alternative minimum tax!
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Yes, I was serious.
Here's yet another serious question... Have you ever run a business?
Have you?
Since you've chosen to answer a question with a question, then I'll just assume that means that your answer is "no".
Since you are evading then I'll just assume that means that your answer is "no".
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Yes, I was serious.
Here's yet another serious question... Have you ever run a business?
Have you?
Since you've chosen to answer a question with a question, then I'll just assume that means that your answer is "no".
Since you are evading then I'll just assume that means that your answer is "no".
Chatting with the guy today in an empty store, it was very sad. Taxes alone didn't kill the place, but when taxes are larger than even your dream profit, something is very, very wrong.
He did say the biggest chunk of his business lost was the trucking industry.
He did say the biggest chunk of his business lost was the trucking industry.
Retail business is very cut throat.... auto parts, home improvemnet, clothing....etc, etc.
I have seen some PepBoys stores close due to poor sales.
I have seen some PepBoys stores close due to poor sales.
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Our NAPA sells service to the trade. They're not (mostly) retail friendly. They have about 10 counter people for a store that would normally have 4 or 5 ..and they're hustling. They're also the most expensive out of the big name stores.
In business you have to provide a service that is unique and your customers will come back to. Sounds like the guy was just not creative enough to pull it off and had not put enough away from the GOOD times. When you have to make payroll you roll up your sleeves and sell sell sell...
If that were the case, I would have bought the place.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I think this is a bit of a reflection on just how nasty WA state has become for businesses. Nazi sales tax collection policies, B&O tax, income tax for business not individuals, property taxes based on 2006 valuations, etc..... people gripe about prices, yet business take it with no lubrication and really the general public has no idea.
I'm not sure that is all correct, Pablo.
For instance, there is no income tax for businesses in the state of Washington; what there is is the B&O Excise tax (the way you wrote that it seems to suggest there is both). That said, the B&O tax really sucks (more so than a business income tax) because it is based upon gross income from all activities (service added & retail sales) and doesn't allow for hardly any deductions (ie, labor, business costs, equipment depreciation, etc.).
As for the "Nazi sales tax collection policies," it's really no different than any other state we've done business in. Because Washington doesn't have any income tax and they collect all their revenue from 8%+ sales tax receipts, they may appear to be "Nazi-esque." But that said, move to some place like Pennsylvania...with it's layers upon layers of state & municipal taxes...and you'll appreciate Washington's simplified tax structure. Of course, my enthusiasm for that is tempered by that 8%...but at least I get to write off some of that on my federal return.
Now the property tax issue doesn't bother me because, IN THEORY, we should be granted property tax relief in the next couple years (when values are readjusted). My county has actually begun the process...my taxes went down last year by about $400 (got a nice little refund from my lender). But the key to this is keeping your local politicians feet over the fire; I know you live in the part of the state where they like to build billion dollar tunnels, half-occupied light rail systems and 1960's-era monorail expansions. Such are the benefits of living on the "enlightened" side, I guess ;-)
I think this is a bit of a reflection on just how nasty WA state has become for businesses. Nazi sales tax collection policies, B&O tax, income tax for business not individuals, property taxes based on 2006 valuations, etc..... people gripe about prices, yet business take it with no lubrication and really the general public has no idea.
I'm not sure that is all correct, Pablo.
For instance, there is no income tax for businesses in the state of Washington; what there is is the B&O Excise tax (the way you wrote that it seems to suggest there is both). That said, the B&O tax really sucks (more so than a business income tax) because it is based upon gross income from all activities (service added & retail sales) and doesn't allow for hardly any deductions (ie, labor, business costs, equipment depreciation, etc.).
As for the "Nazi sales tax collection policies," it's really no different than any other state we've done business in. Because Washington doesn't have any income tax and they collect all their revenue from 8%+ sales tax receipts, they may appear to be "Nazi-esque." But that said, move to some place like Pennsylvania...with it's layers upon layers of state & municipal taxes...and you'll appreciate Washington's simplified tax structure. Of course, my enthusiasm for that is tempered by that 8%...but at least I get to write off some of that on my federal return.
Now the property tax issue doesn't bother me because, IN THEORY, we should be granted property tax relief in the next couple years (when values are readjusted). My county has actually begun the process...my taxes went down last year by about $400 (got a nice little refund from my lender). But the key to this is keeping your local politicians feet over the fire; I know you live in the part of the state where they like to build billion dollar tunnels, half-occupied light rail systems and 1960's-era monorail expansions. Such are the benefits of living on the "enlightened" side, I guess ;-)
There is not both (I should have put the second part in parentheses) you are correct. I didn't mean to imply they are separate. However, the attitude on this side is that they can continue to pile all the taxes on business and the masses will become happier and happier......
I'm not holding my breath for that property tax break. I so want to move back to Whatcom county.
I'm not holding my breath for that property tax break. I so want to move back to Whatcom county.
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I'm interested on what ultimate good property tax relief will bring anyone? Where will the shortfall in revenue be made up?
I was asked to support gambling in PA to pay for education. I asked what new revenue could it possibly produce? It can only channel existing revenue through it and away from pizza joints ..movie theaters ..stores ..
Just where is the magic money coming from to not takiht as it givith? How will relief not merely exchange burden elsewhere?
I was asked to support gambling in PA to pay for education. I asked what new revenue could it possibly produce? It can only channel existing revenue through it and away from pizza joints ..movie theaters ..stores ..
Just where is the magic money coming from to not takiht as it givith? How will relief not merely exchange burden elsewhere?
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
That's a shame. They just opened a NAPA here and one a few miles away in my parent's town (nice store, too). There was also an AAP that opened not more than 3 months ago.
Sounds like it might be regional.
Geez, I'd like to go to TX or OK. Nothing here in NE Ohio.
That's a shame. They just opened a NAPA here and one a few miles away in my parent's town (nice store, too). There was also an AAP that opened not more than 3 months ago.
Sounds like it might be regional.
Geez, I'd like to go to TX or OK. Nothing here in NE Ohio.
Gary - not everyone thinks that all government spending is useful. Not everyone thinks the money is the government's to take in the first place.
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