Now that it's parted out do an acid soak on everything and rebore and sleeve the pistons. Seriously perfect, smooth, engine w/ more power and torque.
My E46 323i using non-synthetic: sludge fest 2010!
- Thread starter oliverr871
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hard to see from the pictures but did cyl sleeves have significant wear? what did you do with that engine?
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Awesome.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
I'd say that engine never had an oil change. It's criminal...
For sure.
I'd say that engine never had an oil change. It's criminal...
For sure.
Just curious, if you are going to pull the filter out to examine it, why not just drop a new one in there instead of replacing the old one. Thats why I like the new cartridge filter setups.
Swap motors with a chevy 5.3... USA
Or buy a cts V. No more sludge problem...
Help the nations national debt and on and on and on..
Or buy a cts V. No more sludge problem...
Help the nations national debt and on and on and on..
Originally Posted By: oliverr871
Thanks guys.
Don't synthetics have some limited detergent in it to keep the engine clean? I could just keep using some cheap synthetic and replace it using shorter oil change intervals.
Yea, I don't want it to be dislodged instantly because that could be problematic. I know it will take a while, but as long as the filter eventually doesn't show any more materials, then it'll be good.
I am on German Castrol right now, I think I will replace the oil filter element 3 more times and add MMO before before a 10k oil change interval. Or no?
Also, why do you recommend Mobil1 10w40?
The car does not use up any oil either, and no "ticking" noises in the valve.
"Also, why do you recommend Mobil1 10w40?" not M1 10w-40, this should be M1 0w-40. 0w-40 is certified for your car.
Thanks guys.
Don't synthetics have some limited detergent in it to keep the engine clean? I could just keep using some cheap synthetic and replace it using shorter oil change intervals.
Yea, I don't want it to be dislodged instantly because that could be problematic. I know it will take a while, but as long as the filter eventually doesn't show any more materials, then it'll be good.
I am on German Castrol right now, I think I will replace the oil filter element 3 more times and add MMO before before a 10k oil change interval. Or no?
Also, why do you recommend Mobil1 10w40?
The car does not use up any oil either, and no "ticking" noises in the valve.
"Also, why do you recommend Mobil1 10w40?" not M1 10w-40, this should be M1 0w-40. 0w-40 is certified for your car.
I marvel every time I see the pics of that engine.
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
Ugh those pics bring back memories
Wow the bottom end pic makes me want to cringe in the way only a BITOGer would.
Did you get a look at the pistons and piston rings? I'd be interested to see how gummed up they were; after all, they are one of the main reasons you'd want a sludge free engine.
Did you get a look at the pistons and piston rings? I'd be interested to see how gummed up they were; after all, they are one of the main reasons you'd want a sludge free engine.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Amen!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Really agree, but here is the thing - A 1.8T has all these sludging issues (a friend of mine had one with over 190k on it that had no sludge, we kept 0w-40 M1 in it though) needs all this great care.
Well, I could go but a domestic or Japanese car and not have these issues.
...At least on the top-level view.
But it sure seems to me that when these things arise, it is primarily due to specific output. A 1.8T put out what? 100hp/L?
So that's going to change they situation compared to something with lower specific output. Sure seems to me that it was doable to prevent this back in 2004, if one used the right oil, and as more manufacturers are converging on high output engines, the oil specs are improving to reflect - much to the dismay of those with older, low specific output devices.
But my big issue is something like a 323i is NOT a high specific output engine. I doubt it is any more power dense than a camry or accord or malibu engine, and not necessarily run any harder.
So the blanket statement that euro cars need to be maintained at euro prices is a bit misleading, unless a real, sound basis for why this is relevant for every model and system is clearly spelled out.
Im not seeing why a 323i should be any different than a 2.5L camry in terms of maintenance and oil changes. And if done right, they both can be extended very far.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Really agree, but here is the thing - A 1.8T has all these sludging issues (a friend of mine had one with over 190k on it that had no sludge, we kept 0w-40 M1 in it though) needs all this great care.
Well, I could go but a domestic or Japanese car and not have these issues.
...At least on the top-level view.
But it sure seems to me that when these things arise, it is primarily due to specific output. A 1.8T put out what? 100hp/L?
So that's going to change they situation compared to something with lower specific output. Sure seems to me that it was doable to prevent this back in 2004, if one used the right oil, and as more manufacturers are converging on high output engines, the oil specs are improving to reflect - much to the dismay of those with older, low specific output devices.
But my big issue is something like a 323i is NOT a high specific output engine. I doubt it is any more power dense than a camry or accord or malibu engine, and not necessarily run any harder.
So the blanket statement that euro cars need to be maintained at euro prices is a bit misleading, unless a real, sound basis for why this is relevant for every model and system is clearly spelled out.
Im not seeing why a 323i should be any different than a 2.5L camry in terms of maintenance and oil changes. And if done right, they both can be extended very far.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Really agree, but here is the thing - A 1.8T has all these sludging issues (a friend of mine had one with over 190k on it that had no sludge, we kept 0w-40 M1 in it though) needs all this great care.
Well, I could go but a domestic or Japanese car and not have these issues.
...At least on the top-level view.
But it sure seems to me that when these things arise, it is primarily due to specific output. A 1.8T put out what? 100hp/L?
So that's going to change they situation compared to something with lower specific output. Sure seems to me that it was doable to prevent this back in 2004, if one used the right oil, and as more manufacturers are converging on high output engines, the oil specs are improving to reflect - much to the dismay of those with older, low specific output devices.
But my big issue is something like a 323i is NOT a high specific output engine. I doubt it is any more power dense than a camry or accord or malibu engine, and not necessarily run any harder.
So the blanket statement that euro cars need to be maintained at euro prices is a bit misleading, unless a real, sound basis for why this is relevant for every model and system is clearly spelled out.
Im not seeing why a 323i should be any different than a 2.5L camry in terms of maintenance and oil changes. And if done right, they both can be extended very far.
I would agree, except that BMW has more sophisticated engines regardless of output and HP per liter. I am from Europe, and 1.8T always required synthetic oil in Europe and I never heard of sludge issues in Europe with this motor or any other.
When I bought Passat 1.8T here in the US I found out about this issue.
BMW and Camry should not have same engines, because then BMW would not be BMW, it would be just another boring japanese car!
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Who would spend BMW money -and NOT think enough to maintain it. ??!!
You'd be surprised how many people think that a luxury car should maintain itself.
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Really agree, but here is the thing - A 1.8T has all these sludging issues (a friend of mine had one with over 190k on it that had no sludge, we kept 0w-40 M1 in it though) needs all this great care.
Well, I could go but a domestic or Japanese car and not have these issues.
...At least on the top-level view.
But it sure seems to me that when these things arise, it is primarily due to specific output. A 1.8T put out what? 100hp/L?
So that's going to change they situation compared to something with lower specific output. Sure seems to me that it was doable to prevent this back in 2004, if one used the right oil, and as more manufacturers are converging on high output engines, the oil specs are improving to reflect - much to the dismay of those with older, low specific output devices.
But my big issue is something like a 323i is NOT a high specific output engine. I doubt it is any more power dense than a camry or accord or malibu engine, and not necessarily run any harder.
So the blanket statement that euro cars need to be maintained at euro prices is a bit misleading, unless a real, sound basis for why this is relevant for every model and system is clearly spelled out.
Im not seeing why a 323i should be any different than a 2.5L camry in terms of maintenance and oil changes. And if done right, they both can be extended very far.
I would agree, except that BMW has more sophisticated engines regardless of output and HP per liter. I am from Europe, and 1.8T always required synthetic oil in Europe and I never heard of sludge issues in Europe with this motor or any other.
When I bought Passat 1.8T here in the US I found out about this issue.
BMW and Camry should not have same engines, because then BMW would not be BMW, it would be just another boring japanese car!
BMW's have an oil service of 15K miles with BMW LL01 rated oil. You will be suprised how many people use dino in these cars for 15K miles. I bought my 2001 330Ci new, the engine is spotless and the car has been very reliable. Over the years I've realized people who complain about BMW's reliablity are either ignorant when it comes to maintaining the car or cheap.
Didn't Toyota also have sludge issues with their v6 from 97-2005?
Originally Posted By: typ901
Didn't Toyota also have sludge issues with their v6 from 97-2005?
Yep they did! Sludge issues in car for people 70+.
I would agree with previous post, BMW is very reliable car, in hands of people who know what they drive!
Didn't Toyota also have sludge issues with their v6 from 97-2005?
Yep they did! Sludge issues in car for people 70+.
I would agree with previous post, BMW is very reliable car, in hands of people who know what they drive!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Really agree, but here is the thing - A 1.8T has all these sludging issues (a friend of mine had one with over 190k on it that had no sludge, we kept 0w-40 M1 in it though) needs all this great care.
Well, I could go but a domestic or Japanese car and not have these issues.
...At least on the top-level view.
But it sure seems to me that when these things arise, it is primarily due to specific output. A 1.8T put out what? 100hp/L?
So that's going to change they situation compared to something with lower specific output. Sure seems to me that it was doable to prevent this back in 2004, if one used the right oil, and as more manufacturers are converging on high output engines, the oil specs are improving to reflect - much to the dismay of those with older, low specific output devices.
But my big issue is something like a 323i is NOT a high specific output engine. I doubt it is any more power dense than a camry or accord or malibu engine, and not necessarily run any harder.
So the blanket statement that euro cars need to be maintained at euro prices is a bit misleading, unless a real, sound basis for why this is relevant for every model and system is clearly spelled out.
Im not seeing why a 323i should be any different than a 2.5L camry in terms of maintenance and oil changes. And if done right, they both can be extended very far.
I would agree, except that BMW has more sophisticated engines regardless of output and HP per liter. I am from Europe, and 1.8T always required synthetic oil in Europe and I never heard of sludge issues in Europe with this motor or any other.
When I bought Passat 1.8T here in the US I found out about this issue.
BMW and Camry should not have same engines, because then BMW would not be BMW, it would be just another boring japanese car!
Im not saying that you are wrong. Im just saying that it is never really clearly explained why.
15k on an oil is bound to create degradation in oil of any type, especially basestocks susceptible to high oxidation. Sure is true.
But 15k OCIs aside, what makes the run of the mill european engine more sophisticated than a Japanese or Domestic engine? That is what Im getting at.
For its time, my M42 engine in my E30 was more sophisticated than many of its Japanese and domestic competitors. My N55 with DI and a twin scroll single body turbo is also more sophisticated. But for a run of the mill I6 engine, what is so much more sophisticated? Everyone has COP, everyone has variable valve timing. Specific outputs are roughly the same.
So what is it?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I agree. I always hear "arguments" how BMW or Mercedes or Audi are unreliable. Like they have problems! Really? My friend took his A4 1.8T to some cheap fast oil change. Off course they were using some cheap mineral oil, and guess what, sludge fest after 70K. He blamed car, europeans etc. He said that was never problem with his 95 Camry! Really? He wants to drive Audi but to put $19.99 oil.
People are just plain stupid when it comes to cars, especially European cars!
Really agree, but here is the thing - A 1.8T has all these sludging issues (a friend of mine had one with over 190k on it that had no sludge, we kept 0w-40 M1 in it though) needs all this great care.
Well, I could go but a domestic or Japanese car and not have these issues.
...At least on the top-level view.
But it sure seems to me that when these things arise, it is primarily due to specific output. A 1.8T put out what? 100hp/L?
So that's going to change they situation compared to something with lower specific output. Sure seems to me that it was doable to prevent this back in 2004, if one used the right oil, and as more manufacturers are converging on high output engines, the oil specs are improving to reflect - much to the dismay of those with older, low specific output devices.
But my big issue is something like a 323i is NOT a high specific output engine. I doubt it is any more power dense than a camry or accord or malibu engine, and not necessarily run any harder.
So the blanket statement that euro cars need to be maintained at euro prices is a bit misleading, unless a real, sound basis for why this is relevant for every model and system is clearly spelled out.
Im not seeing why a 323i should be any different than a 2.5L camry in terms of maintenance and oil changes. And if done right, they both can be extended very far.
I would agree, except that BMW has more sophisticated engines regardless of output and HP per liter. I am from Europe, and 1.8T always required synthetic oil in Europe and I never heard of sludge issues in Europe with this motor or any other.
When I bought Passat 1.8T here in the US I found out about this issue.
BMW and Camry should not have same engines, because then BMW would not be BMW, it would be just another boring japanese car!
Im not saying that you are wrong. Im just saying that it is never really clearly explained why.
15k on an oil is bound to create degradation in oil of any type, especially basestocks susceptible to high oxidation. Sure is true.
But 15k OCIs aside, what makes the run of the mill european engine more sophisticated than a Japanese or Domestic engine? That is what Im getting at.
For its time, my M42 engine in my E30 was more sophisticated than many of its Japanese and domestic competitors. My N55 with DI and a twin scroll single body turbo is also more sophisticated. But for a run of the mill I6 engine, what is so much more sophisticated? Everyone has COP, everyone has variable valve timing. Specific outputs are roughly the same.
So what is it?
It's not an issue of any motor being more sophisticated then the other. The issue is sludge developing due to inadequate oil changes and/or using the wrong oil for the application. 15K mile oil changes combined with a motor designed to run hot for improved efficiency is a recipe for disaster in the hands of an ignorant and/or cheap owner. 15K mile oil changes with LL01 oil, (normal driving conditions), along with refreshing the cooling system every 65K miles will keep the car and owner happy.
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