my 2 bottle arx test "results" (long)

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Quick summary: 2 bottle test freed up lots of gunk on a volvo turbo and stopped oil consumption. On a Subaru, 2 bottle test freed up what I think was carbon and increased power somewhat.

Post about fast track treatment method got me to thinking maybe I should post my observations if anyone is interested in fast track or 2 bottle test. This was done for fun and my own curiosity not sanctioned by Frank. Check out Barkerman's posts on 2 bottle tests if you haven't seen those yet. My "test" has only qualitative observations.

Car #1: 98 Volvo 2.4 l turbo, 6 qt sump, about 100k miles. 2 bottles ARX used with walmart dino 5W30 for about 1000 miles, then two rinses with walmart dino for about 1200 miles each.

My objectives that I wanted Auto-RX to do in order of priority (I know, it's asking a lot):

Objective1: Reduce oil consumption
Before - used about 1.5 quarts in 5000 miles
After - hasn't used any (currently running GC)

Objective 2: Reduce engine noise/increase smoothness of engine
Before - noisy (but I'm really picky on this)
After - no change, noise could be combo of 5cyl naturally unbalanced engine and/or motor mounts (they look ok from outside but did not remove to inspect)

Objective 3: Oil appearance
Before - nasty brownish-red color to oil fairly early on after changing but used redline so possible that redline started the cleaning process liberating some gunk (oil looked fine not reddish brown when I got the car but who knows if it was recently changed or not, immediately used redline soon after purchasing)
During - reddish-brown "sludge" visible during rinse phase
After - GC looks normal now with 6k on it

Objective 4: Reduce varnish under valve cover
Before - tan/gold varnish, probably normal
After - no change

Objective 5: Improve gas mileage
Before - 26 mpg
During - 28 mpg in clean phase only
After/now - 26.5 mpg

I also should note no noticeable difference in power as measured by the finely tuned butt-dyno

Car #2: Subaru 2.2l 180kish. 2 bottles ARX used with walmart dino for about 1000 miles, then two rinses with walmart dino for about 1200 miles each

Before - Car really didn't have any problems and oil looked fine, no consumption or other issues, just figured at 180k miles it could possibly use some clean up

During - Noticeable fine black particles in both rinse phases (looked like carbon to me), noticeable increase in power and exhaust noise (probably due to more compression I assume). 2.2l is pretty low hp/torque so increases are pretty noticeable. Did not pay attention to mileage.

After/now - Same observations listed in "During" above, but no black particles any more. Butt-dyno is happier than before
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
Congrats! So, you satisfied?

Q.


For the Volvo, I feel it was definately worth the cost to not have to look at that red-brown crud!
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Stopping the oil consumption is of course the great benefit and it was well worth it. I was never really expecting to achieve the other items as they were really not realistic except maybe mpg.

For the subi, the peace of mind of getting it cleaned up is important and it does have more power than before so if I had to do it again knowing what I know now, I would.

I have to say that I believe I would have got the same results using the regular one bottle treatment which would have been cheaper but taken longer. But I wanted that dirty looking stuff gone in the Volvo ASAP!! For the subi there was no hurry and the rationale was only to have another test of the 2 bottle treatment to compare to the volvo.
 
i know that you don't directly deal with auto-rx but i do know that you're very knowledgeable about oils in general. i'm looking to try out the fast track clean method on my new nissan. it has a japanese motor swap so i don't know the exact history of the motor other than it's roughly 30,000 mi (very clean looking under the oil cap and top end, via old photos).

what i do know is that the previous owner used conventional 10w40 in it. and that it's going to be too thick for an ohio winter (he was in miami). so i'm looking to move over to a synthetic (either gc 0w30 or ams 0w30).

what i want to know is, is there a huge performance loss in using auto-rx with a synthetic. i want to switch to my new oil and would rather have it all in there so i can begin running analysis.

so my plan is to change the current oil and go to the synthetic adding in a full bottle of auto-rx. and running it 1000mi (per frank) and dumping. but instead of using a dino for the rinse i would rather continue using the synthetic (to ensure full oil switch over before analysis).

from reading i can't tell if this has been done. will the auto-rx and synthetic adversely effect each other to the point of harm?
 
Originally Posted By: buickmaster
i know that you don't directly deal with auto-rx but i do know that you're very knowledgeable about oils in general. i'm looking to try out the fast track clean method on my new nissan. it has a japanese motor swap so i don't know the exact history of the motor other than it's roughly 30,000 mi (very clean looking under the oil cap and top end, via old photos).

what i do know is that the previous owner used conventional 10w40 in it. and that it's going to be too thick for an ohio winter (he was in miami). so i'm looking to move over to a synthetic (either gc 0w30 or ams 0w30).

what i want to know is, is there a huge performance loss in using auto-rx with a synthetic. i want to switch to my new oil and would rather have it all in there so i can begin running analysis.

so my plan is to change the current oil and go to the synthetic adding in a full bottle of auto-rx. and running it 1000mi (per frank) and dumping. but instead of using a dino for the rinse i would rather continue using the synthetic (to ensure full oil switch over before analysis).

from reading i can't tell if this has been done. will the auto-rx and synthetic adversely effect each other to the point of harm?


First of all, Pablo, Doug Hillary, Gary Allen, ekpolk, Glennc, TeeDubb and a ton of others here are really knowledgeable about oil, not me. But I am definitely trying to learn as fast as I can from them.
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From the auto-rx website FAQ's:

"If you are adamant about continuing to run a “synthetic oil” during your Auto-Rx cleaning and rinse application, I suggest running a group III, synthetic oil. This is still a mineral oil, but more highly refined and has properties, such as pour point and durability very close to what is referred to as a full synthetic or group IV oil. Most group IV oils contain a relatively high level of esters in their formulation and do not perform as well during the rinsing phase in particular. This is due to the polar nature of the esters, which tend to help the oil cling to the metal parts, instead of draining or rinsing off."

So the question then to the guys who are really knowledgable about oil is, "Is either GC or amsoil 0W30 a group III "only" oil?"

"only" is a loaded word, I know. The synthetic I have heard most often associated with autorx is PP but I know that is not one of your two preferred oils.
 
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Saaber1, I can help but notice the mpg on the volvo while you had cheap dino and a heavy concentration of ARX in the sump of the volvo. If I further look at a couple treads in the section whereby mileage gains were not only maintained, but enhanced running the maintenance dose, why you are not running the maintenance dose. For the cost of 3 or 4 fluid ounces of ARX, your 28 mpg during cleaning would be nice to get back.

Buickmaster, you might be the perfect candidate to run the fast track method of ARX. You still have a couple months of warm weather up in Ohio. I would suggest the high dose in dino for 1000 miles. Follow that up with a short rinse OCI with dino or group III. Then go on to your Full synthetic oil choice for the winter.
 
i am going to do the fast track and maintenance. spoke with frank and order 2 more bottle last night (total 3 now). i think i might go with the dino. i just don't know what brand (i'm super picky esp the back and forth) and don't want to put a 5w30 in thats gonna shear being rev to 8000rpm daily. thats why i just wanted to go with my syn choice all the way. i'm i too worried for such a short duration?

has anyone done 3 bottles/1 quart? or is auto-rx not enough lube to supplant a whole quart of oil? i was thinking maybe 3 and the syn?
 
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I've used 2 bottles in a 95 Corvette for 1500 miles with Synpower 5-30 in the sump. Let the drained oil sit undisturbed in a pan for about a week, and cut open the Fram can least night. Not very pretty, mostly when I poured the undisturbed 5 qts out, what was left on the bottom of the pan was nasty. Filter was stained super black but no contaminants you could 'spoon' out
Steve
 
Recommended Fast Track Application will be for folks that are looking to cleanse ring packs. Recommended oil for fast track will be dino or group III during the cleaning phase, same for rinse. The doage rate will be 3 fluid ounces per quart sump capacity. Cleaning phase is for 1000 miles. If you are planning on staying with dino or group III a simple oil change interval can be used for the rinse. If the ultimate goal is to run a group IV then rinsing with dino or group III for 1000 miles is recommended.
 
any advantage on the fast track to using 2 bottles? in my case i have a 4qt sump. with such a short go round would it help having a little more auto-rx?

i think i am just going to use dino 5w30 gtx for the clean and rinse, for 1000-1500 durations. then switch to my group 4 oil. does that sound good.
 
^^i'm doing the fast application its something new. i don't have time for a 2500mi app. if i did i would but i just bought the car and the guy who had it before me used 10w40 (he was in miami, fl). not gonna work with ohio winter coming around the corner.
 
Buickmaster,

I'd follow the fast track method listed on the application instruction page over at the ARX site. After cleaning and rinsing use your remaining product to run the 3 fluid ounce maintenance dose with each oil change. The fast track method suggests running a cleaning ration of 3 fluid ounces per quart of motor oil, dino or group III, run for 1000 miles. Then run a rinse cycle for 1000 miles on dino or group III if you goal is to get the group IV synthetic, ASAP. You could also run the rinse cycle out to 3000 miles with either a proper spec dino or group III, if your car useage permits, before the real cold weather sets in. Just thinking of getting the maximum dollar value out of the rinse oil if wheather permits. Incidentally 10W40 sounds a bit heavy and indexed higher than whats called for in your motor.
 
you're tellin me. i was doing some reading on here and read that thick oils are bad for motors with hydraulic lift (this motor has a valve lift system like honda's vtec). thats one of the main reasons for the auto-rx. plus the motor was imported (nissan never used this motor in the states), so the exact history is unknown.

based on what you're saying it sounds like the rinse phase is where the benefits are. if so i guess i should try to stretch it out past 1000mi.
 
Originally Posted By: buickmaster
based on what you're saying it sounds like the rinse phase is where the benefits are. if so i guess i should try to stretch it out past 1000mi.


Yes the rinse is the most important part. Dropping the rinse oil after the 2 bottle treatment in 1,000 miles and a fresh fill is going to get all the suspended garbage out and additional rinsing if any will be done with clean oil and a new filter. You are trying to get the product to work faster and would want the junk out sooner. At least that's the way I see it.

JMO,
Frank D
 
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