MX2T is Great Stuff!

[blano]

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Here is a few pics. The first one shows the piston of a xc-800 snowmobile run at 32:1 with mx2t. Its had I believe around 4,500 miles when this pic was taken. Notice how clean the exhaust port and piston top looks? The next pics are of the muffler cover off a stihl ms 260 chain saw and the outlet of a stihl br420 BP blower all ran at 32:1 on MX2T. Notice how clean they are?

 

[blano]

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Funny, with the dino it only fragged one saw out of 3 and did nothing to the other equipment. Also, everyone assumed Amsoil 100:1 until later in the thread when it was mentioned that dino was at fault. Even after the dino admission some people didn't catch on.

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I believe the saw in question was blown up using amsoil interceptor at a much to lean ratio that was a reuslt of a measuring mix up. regardless there are a few things most people dont know about in regards to that saw. i believe its a time bomb regardless of oil used...
Lets do some math here... 1 quart of citgo at $3.50 will make 12.3 gallons of mix @ 50:1, 1 8oz bottle of saber at $3.15 will make 6.1 gallons of fuel at 100:1. Tell me which cost less?

 

[blano]

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The mix ratio for the SABRE professional for heavy duty commercial or racing use is 50:1 to 80:1. For homeowner use a ration of 100:1 works just fine....

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This is exactly what Amsoil use to have on their site.

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I'd agree with Blano that the older stuff did not burn as cleanly as it could - that's why it was reformulated.

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Maybe I need to test this new formulation...
I might remind you guys that you proclaimed the original 100:1 to be very clean as well so Im not holding my breath.

 

[blano]

BTW wuli, I actually run(will have 12 by May) some of those 100:1 speced yammi motors. They are excellant pieces of equipment, but no one runs them at 100:1. For one the motor is the exact same motor as the 50:1 version. To use the 100:1 ratio you must uses yamahas oil(thats what my dealer tells me,atleast), which is too expensive for commercial operators to buy. Secondly the engines do not last as long on 100:1. This is coming from my local mechanic who actually worked with the yammi crew when they where developing some of their outboards on Lake of The Woods. I think it would be very rare to find a lodge using 100:1 ratios unless you could use a elcheapo tcw3 oil to do so.
FWIW the yammi motors run very clean at 50:1. when compared to a mercury they are almost smokeless(only when cold, and then only slight), better on fuel and faster.
As for the etecs. They have some unnique engineering/metalurgy that allows them to run extremely lean oils ratios(I believe I heard 170:1 with their best oil). They also use a precision point in jection sytem that is differant from traditinal sytems and they are a direct injection motors that has only air in the crankcase. They are IMO the benchmark of all outboards right now provided they prove to be durable.

 

[Slick 55]

That piston shot is amazing!

 

[TooSlick]

You do have to readjust the low/high speed, idle mixture screws to get the best results running the Amsoil 100:1 oil....

I generally advise my customers to run 1-2 tanks through and then re-adjust the engine. The ester based synthetic will actually remove pre-existing varnish/carbon deposits and this can also effect combustion efficiency.

I'm currently running some of the original TC-W3, ashless version of the Series 2000 (circa 2002), two stroke racing oil in my Stihl saw and trimmer; mixed @ 50:1. I've had to play around with the screws again since I had been using some of the old 100:1 and new SABRE Professional in both of those engines.

TS

 

[wulimaster]

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Originally posted by blano:

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I think they didn't readjust their equipment and leaned out their engines

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TRhats certainly wouldnt make them run lean as going from 32:1 to 100:1 mix would in effect richen your jetting...

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I would agree with you that changing ratios with the same oil would have that effect but when changing oils and changing ratios that axiom isn't necessarily true.

See the following quote from.

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/

"For the test engine to turn the propeller at 6000 rpms, a very similar amount of energy was required from each oil-gas combination. Surprisingly, all of the oil-gas mixes except 2, required only very minor adjustments of the high speed needle to achieve peak rpms. Therefore, the energy per unit volume of all of the oil-gas mixes except two were very close. The two oil-gas mixes which required a major adjustment of the high speed needle were Belray @ 32:1 and Amsoil @ 100:1. Both of these mixes required that the high speed needle be opened between 1/8 and 3/16 of a turn. Therefore, these 2 mixes had less energy per unit volume than the other 8 mixes. Since these two mixes are very different, what is the explanation? "

I have to agree with the authors question. What is the explanation?

 

[TooSlick]

Wulimaster,

It seems clear from these photos that the richest you'd EVER want to mix the Dominator is 50:1 and that LEANER mixtures would probably even be better for lower temp, water cooled applications like PWC's and snowmobiles. This reinforces the results I've had with the old Series 2000 Racing Oil in my OPE engines.

I hope the folks who insist on ignoring Amsoils' mix recommendations closely review these tests....This is exactly the kind of parametric testing that Amsoil does in-house while the product is being developed. The recommended mix ratio is the best compromise between wear protection, engine deposits, exhaust emissions, performance, etc....I'd start with this 50:1 ratio for both the Interceptor and Dominator and only make minor adjustments if necessary ....

Tooslick

 

[blano]

There are a few problems with that test. One being the operating conditions RC motors are run in are night and day differant when compared to a air cooled piece of OPE, snowmobile or a motocross bike. Low load, constant throttle, and fairly cool operating temps lead to deposits and all of the oils had issues with deposits IMO in the test. Notice the picture I posted of the snowmobile piston. Thats how a properly tuned two cycle piston should look. Also by juding the wash patterns on the engines in the test it appears to me that they are running very rich as well.
In regards to why H1R and 100:1 where differant from the other oils. I tend to agree with the author of the test on his comment about them not combusting properly. I at one time ran H1R in my MX bikes and it is a high molecular weight formulation like Amsoil is. Unless the load and heat are very high it will not burn clean at all. Belray has reformulated H1R in the last few years to fix the problem, but I havent ran it since. Another thing to consider that the auther left out is could both these oils be interfering with combustion to the point they lower temps? seems plausable. I say this only because I know that the best two cycle oils have stoichemetric ratios that are very close to gasoline and burn completly and cleanly. Partial burning of the oil mix would tend to leach heat out of the chamber..
BTW I didnt bring up this test before because IMO it has alot of holes in it, but the temp variance with these two oils is very telling. I might also add that had the oils been run in say a Stihl trimmer the results would have been much differant.

[ April 17, 2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: blano ]

 

[blano]

BTW Ted, Whya msoil would formulate Dominator so it onlyt burned cleanly at 50:1 is beyond me. No racer in his racer thats knows anything about motors would want to runa 50:1 ratio as you are gicing up HP.
BTW from what I have seen in MX bikes Dominator will not burn clean even at 50:1 in normal operating conditions. Take the bike to the dunes where rpm and load are very high an it does OK.

 

[Hirev]

I not a fan of oil ratios leaner than 40:1 in any any 2 stroke and use 32:1 most of the time just because it has been will proven over the years on a few dyno tests. That more oil in a 2 stroke all the way to 16:1 will keep making more horsepower if the jetting is adjust properly for the oil ratio just because of better ring seal. Rust prevention alone should stop a guy from using 60:1 to 100:1 oil ratios. The 1st tests on this dates back to around 1977 in Cycle World Magazine from none other than Gordon Jennings.

I think how refined or crud the carb is and how much cylinder pressure has a direct bearing on what type of 2 stroke oil you can use for your application. I have run many gallons of Amsoil 2000/Dominator in my KTM 380EXC offroad bike at 32:1 it works just fine. But this bike also has 210-215 PSI cylinder pressure. Jetted by the wet oil line method it has no problem digesting this oil at this ratio. It burns real clean other when its first started there is a slight amount of smoke. It also has never fowled a plug with this oil. Very Important in offroad events.

I like MX2T a bunch and use it allot on OPE. But for my KTM with its cylinder pressure it does not get along well with the kerosene used in it. Using large doses of VP C12 racing gas in offroad events can get real expensive if you do a couple a month.

As far as OPE with their crud carbs and lower cylinder pressure MX2T, Echo power blend, Castrol TTS do seem like a better choices than some racing oils.

[ April 17, 2005, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Hirev ]

 

[blano]

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But for my KTM with its cylinder pressure it does not get along well with the kerosene used in it.

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Thats non sense, Hirev. I have used MX2T in applications (including a ktm 200mxc and a 380sx) that are much more octane sensitive than your KTM and have never had and issues. These include a cr500af and a Polaris and Ski Doo big bore sleds.
BTW I think the rumor that kerosene is used in mx2t was spread because of a FUBAR by Mobil on the original MSDS file for MX2T.
Here is the latest MSDS. http://www.host1.exxonmobil.com/psims/psims.aspx
Note that it lists a light hydrocarbon distillate as part of the MSDS with a CAS # of (64742-47-8). The CAS # for Kerosene is (8008-20-6).
If you want to get technical here is a link to the solvent that corresponds with the CAS# found in MX2T's MSDS.
http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/P...ica/Sales_Specification_Exxsol_Fluid_D_80.pdf

 

[Hirev]

I'm unable to get the search right for the latest MSDS. What product code are you using.. a new one?

I not saying MX2T is bad I'm just saying what finally worked for me And why MX2T did not work for me in this case.

All I know is I was unable to get the jetting required and keep up with the often moving jetting target for sometimes very technical offroad sections. The 380EXC had to be a bit rich to control off idle ping using MX2T and I finally got it with Amsoil 2000. Trust me I did try. I own over 20 needles, 3 slides, and 2 carbs for this bike. Believe me I've tried many combinations.

I got a copy of the original MX2T MSDS but this site won't let me post a section because of HTML. Were I found the information.

14 Transport information under shipping name it states Kerosene Solution.

 

[blano]

It may say that in the transport section, but tis not Kerosene. Its a low flash solvent and a very good one I might add.
Your tuning problems sound like a bike issue that you got lucky with Amsoil fixing. I remember jetting my 200 mxc was a grueling process till I finally went to a honda needle. I then got the 380 and went with a honda needle as well and it was mych easier to deal with. Typicaly if your pinging at low throttle settings its a lean issue somewhere in the tuning range and not a issue with fuel or oil mix.
I cant say I even think about jetting with this 500AF I have now. 1 leaner ppilot in the hottest part of the summer is all it needs to run spot on year round. The exhaust is as dry as my buddys 450 four stroke and I have never replaced a plug since I bought it in 02.

 

[blano]

BTW I believe they are using Kerosene as a generic term for solvents. It does indeed contain a aliphatic solvent, but it isnt Kerosene. Kerosene always shows up on a MSDS FWIW so its not possible that kerosene was part of the mix and was left out.
I have also seen a MSDS sheet for MX2T where says it containes Stoddard solvent instead of light hydrotreated distillate(which is a very generic term). The funny thing is they always give the same CAS# number which corresponds with what I posted above.
i think MSDS files are a decidingly poor way to find out the makeup of anything.

 

[Soupy]

Blano, I tried a bottle of MX2T for my trimmers and Blowers (I own a lawn care company) and they seemed to love the stuff. I went back to AutoZone and they stopped selling it because no one was buying it. I tried all the other places in town and no one carries it.

Here's my question, The guy at AutoZone (an air head) said If I had a part number he might be able to order me a case. I don't have the empty bottle, but he said the part number is on the bottle. Do you know what number he is referring to? Can you look at a bottle for me? I Don't know why it wouldn't be listed under MX2T, but he said he needs a part number

Sorry to get off topic, you can PM me the info if possible.

Thanks,
Soupy

 

[416Rigby]

Site sponsor www.avlube.com sells it by the case. 12 bottles for $39.

 

[blano]

I dont see any part number on the bottle. Youc an buy it cheaper from your local MObile distributor anyway. I actually get it for under $3.00 per pint.

 

[jsharp]

I was in the Autozone where my son works today and they opened the last case of MX2T. They of course won't carry it any longer because it's obsolete. The pint bottles of MX2T have been replaced with quart bottles of Mobil 1 Racing 2T.

I was told it will be a stock item...

 

[04SpecV]

The quarts have red dye finally, Yay. But I think they should change the label.. To the best 2stroke oil for the money anywhere for any application