The 416 rigby reminded me of other british African guns including Purdey doubles up to 600 and 700 nitro expresses. Biggest I have shot was a .50 browning bolt action. The largest felt recoil was probably a short barrelled coach gun weighing about 6.5 lbs. I pulled both triggers at the same time on 1.5 oz magnum duck loads. Made one boom. This was summertime with a tee shirt on and firing down into a river at a floating plastic kids pool.
MX2T is Great Stuff!
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The only reason I mentioned Amsoil at all was because I had been using it for a year prior to switching to the MX2T. If I had known that it would cause such a ruckus, I wouldn't have brought it up. Some folks just have to fight over Amsoil. Don't know why. Amsoil did do something no other 2-cycle oil has done in my engines, it caused big chunks of carbon to be blown out the exhaust. Seems like excessive deposits to me.
You kidding me? I compared like sizes with pricing like any one off the street could get. Most people do not go through a 30 gallon drum of mix oil per you so for you to bring that up in a discussion is ridiculous..
Can you? I have seen enough evidance through actual use to know what constitutes a good two cycle oil. Amsoil 100:1 isnt it. Mediocre at best...
[QUOTEMost will not run it in weed wackers and backpack blowers in commercial applications due to the price so we will never see long term anecdotal evidence like we have seen from Amsoils 100:1. I read here quite often of users of 100:1 running their equipment on the same sparkplug for 7+ years and their equipment is still running like new without opening it up for repairs. MX2T hasn't been out that long yet so I don't think we will ever see if it outperforms 100:1 because someone would have to have been using it since it was introduced and it still wouldn't have exceeded the long term usage I have seen with Amsoil.
] [/QUOTE]
You kidding? tons of people use it in all sorts of OPE. Check one of the lanwcare or chainsaw boards.. I have never once heard of MX2T fragging a motor BTW. Something that can not be said of 100:1.
I havent fouled a plug in years. That includes in my snowmobile that runs a 20:1 ratio at the factory oil pump setting. Plug fouling is a for the most part related to tuning issues and isnt oil related.
FWIW I have been using Amsoil 100:1 mixed @ one eight oz. bottle per 5 gal. gas for over 5 years with good results. All lawn equip. runs well with it and no deposits. I have richened up the mixture due to paranoia from reading posts on this site to 50:1. But keep in mind I have been running at the lean ratio for five years without any problems at all. The cylinder of my newest Lawn-Boy mower (6 years old this season) still has the honed look to it. Not polished at all. No unusual sounds coming from the engine that would indicate excessive wear.
I guess I need to say this again. I have done serious oil testing in the past. While it was years ago, the results are still valid.
1) More oil means more power.
2) 32 to 1 is the MINIMUM amount of oil required to protect a high performance 2 stroke in all likely conditions.
3) More oil does not mean more internal engine deposits.
4) Very high stress 2 strokes need even more oil than 32 to 1. Example: 125cc modified Kart engines like a minimum of 20 to 1 regardless of ("quality") brand.
Chris
1) More oil means more power.
2) 32 to 1 is the MINIMUM amount of oil required to protect a high performance 2 stroke in all likely conditions.
3) More oil does not mean more internal engine deposits.
4) Very high stress 2 strokes need even more oil than 32 to 1. Example: 125cc modified Kart engines like a minimum of 20 to 1 regardless of ("quality") brand.
Chris
Long term user. Since 1993. I have used Mobil 1 in applications where I had a vehicle which I couldn't easily service it myself.
I have been strictly synthetic since about 1990 with the exception of an autorx rinse of cheap dino.
You kidding me? I compared like sizes with pricing like any one off the street could get. Most people do not go through a 30 gallon drum of mix oil per you so for you to bring that up in a discussion is ridiculous..
[/QUOTE]
I believe you have a reading comprehension problem. I thought I made it clear that I was referring to your particular situation where you said that as a commercial entity that used tons of 2-stroke oil for your boats. I assumed that 30 gallons would be a usual amount for you to purchase to get through the season. If you would like I can quote you prices of $6.20 a quart for a single quart or $5.35 a quart when purchased by the case. Even with shipping on a single case it works out to $6.01 a qt. This is for outboard oil. This still works out to $3.00 breakeven for your citgo which is still 50 cents a quart more expensive.
Besides a reading comprehension problem you seem to have a short memory regarding what you said above when you compared Amsoil priced in an 8oz container versus a qt of the Citgo.
Your quote Blano- "As for cost if you go by the prices on Amsoil website its not any cheaper. Citgo aircooled for instance can be had for $3.50 per quart. Even when you figure in the fact your using twice as much oil its still cheaper than Amsoilat $3.50 for a 8oz bottle."
I gave my reason for using the 30 gal reference price in the original article as well as clarifying it for those who didn't notice that I was referring to your specific circumstance. What is your real reason for comparing Amsoils retail price for a 8 oz bottle versus the price for a qt bottle of Citgo? We can all do the math and see that you are paying 50 cents more for the Citgo versus the 100:1.
It does not smoke any less than most off the shelf 50:1 oils like MX2T, Citgo aircooled, Stihl black bottle, etc. The deposits are actually higher from what i have seen with my own eyes. As far as protection goes I think you would have a uphill argument in stateing that it would protect any better. As for cost if you go by the prices on Amsoil website its not any cheaper. Citgo aircooled for instance can be had for $3.50 per quart. Even when you figure in the fact your using twice as much oil its still cheaper than Amsoilat $3.50 for a 8oz bottle.
And MX2T will blow away saber in every regard..
I've been doing some parametric testing of the new Amsoil SABRE professional, 100:1, two stroke. I'd agree with Blano that the older stuff did not burn as cleanly as it could - that's why it was reformulated.
The new SABRE professional has a FP of only 213F, which is comparable to the MX2T formulation. It burns cleanly even at richer mix ratios. I've gotten down to 64:1 so far and it still burns very cleanly.
I'd say for commercial use in chainsaws, trimmers, blowers, etc a mix ratio of 64:1-80:1 will turn out to be optimum. I'm working with a small local tree removal company that has about 10 Stihls and 3-4 Husky saws. They have been mixing @ 32:1 using the OEM oil and we're substituting the Amsoil product at various ratios until we find the optimum mix.
The idea of a "one size fits all" mix ratio for ALL two stroke oils makes absolutely NO technical sense, since the basestock blends and additive chemistry differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. I have no doubt that the MX2T is an excellent product and burns cleanly @ 32:1. However that is besides the point when it comes to finding the sweet spot for the various Amsoil 2-stroke formulations....
And yes I do sell Amsoil - however I've made my living as a propulsion/materials engineer for 22 years. So I'm not just some yahoo who fell off the turnip truck
when it comes to understanding combustion efficiency, deposit formation, etc.
The power to weight ratios I deal with on a daily basis are more like 50:1 to 60:1. Sort of like your little trimmer engine if it generated say 100-120 bhp...
Tooslick
The new SABRE professional has a FP of only 213F, which is comparable to the MX2T formulation. It burns cleanly even at richer mix ratios. I've gotten down to 64:1 so far and it still burns very cleanly.
I'd say for commercial use in chainsaws, trimmers, blowers, etc a mix ratio of 64:1-80:1 will turn out to be optimum. I'm working with a small local tree removal company that has about 10 Stihls and 3-4 Husky saws. They have been mixing @ 32:1 using the OEM oil and we're substituting the Amsoil product at various ratios until we find the optimum mix.
The idea of a "one size fits all" mix ratio for ALL two stroke oils makes absolutely NO technical sense, since the basestock blends and additive chemistry differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. I have no doubt that the MX2T is an excellent product and burns cleanly @ 32:1. However that is besides the point when it comes to finding the sweet spot for the various Amsoil 2-stroke formulations....
And yes I do sell Amsoil - however I've made my living as a propulsion/materials engineer for 22 years. So I'm not just some yahoo who fell off the turnip truck
The power to weight ratios I deal with on a daily basis are more like 50:1 to 60:1. Sort of like your little trimmer engine if it generated say 100-120 bhp...
Tooslick
The mix ratio for the SABRE professional for heavy duty commercial or racing use is 50:1 to 80:1. For homeowner use a ration of 100:1 works just fine....
If you choose to ignore that and run it at an overly rich ratio of 32:1, don't expect it to work as advertised and don't B---- & Moan about it...
TS
If you choose to ignore that and run it at an overly rich ratio of 32:1, don't expect it to work as advertised and don't B---- & Moan about it...
TS
That is funny. I went to their product page and oil was the one thing that was missing. They were hawking 3 saws and different style chains.quote:
Originally posted by blano:
They are not a mFG and they are hawking oil as well.
FWIW my little 5hp tohatsu advises 100:1 "for frequent use". 50:1 "before a storage period longer than 1 month". I think the concern in this case is having enough lube left in the motor for storage. Also note this little motor just goes putt putt all day, not a performance motor at all. I only mention it to add storage to the ratio debate.
A motor that was factory jetted to run 32:1 is going to run richer (fuel/air) when run at 100:1. If no carb adjustments are made this can add to the "dirtyness", the oil wrongly could get the blame. High piston crown temps from running too lean can also lead to more carbon, so as mentioned tuning is a big factor.
My experience with the 100:1 oils, amsl and neo on old maico and husqvana enduro bikes was they ran fine in the woods (after a lot of jetting). But showed accelerated ring and piston wear and even seizure problems while desert racing. This shouldn't negate or challenge anyone elses personal experience, It's nice to hear what others have to say and take it into consideration.
A motor that was factory jetted to run 32:1 is going to run richer (fuel/air) when run at 100:1. If no carb adjustments are made this can add to the "dirtyness", the oil wrongly could get the blame. High piston crown temps from running too lean can also lead to more carbon, so as mentioned tuning is a big factor.
My experience with the 100:1 oils, amsl and neo on old maico and husqvana enduro bikes was they ran fine in the woods (after a lot of jetting). But showed accelerated ring and piston wear and even seizure problems while desert racing. This shouldn't negate or challenge anyone elses personal experience, It's nice to hear what others have to say and take it into consideration.
I believe the saw in question was blown up using amsoil interceptor at a much to lean ratio that was a reuslt of a measuring mix up.
Lets do some math here... 1 quart of citgo at $3.50 will make 12.3 gallons of mix @ 50:1, 1 8oz bottle of saber at $3.15 will make 6.1 gallons of fuel at 100:1. Tell me which cost less? [/QUOTE]
Actually, by the time I finished the long thread the oil turned out to be dominator at either 112:1 or 225:1. I did read about another problem when 5 guys switched over to 100:1 Amsoil to be like the 6th. They all seized their engines except the one originally running it. I think they didn't readjust their equipment and leaned out their engines.
To quote Reagan. "There you go again." You completely ignored what I had to say in the previous post and went circular in your argument. You do seem to have a memory problem, and a reading comprehension problem.
I already did the math above but I will fill in your words with the correct figures.
2 quarts of citgo at $7.00 will make 25 gallons of mix @ 50:1, 1 qt bottle of Saber Outboard at $6.11(April case prices) delivered will make 25 gallons of fuel at 100:1.
Saber professional is 35 cents cheaper /qt.
I can't believe you only chose the 8 oz bottle size when you could have chosen the 1.5oz size at $1.10 retail to really prove your point on cost comparison.
There! I believe I have gotten it all out of my system. I should be good for about another year of your badmouthing Amsoil for whatever personal reason you have. Carry on Cliff.
I was mearly comparing the size container of citgo that is for sale at the local gas station.. My numbers stand. Granted with any MLM type sales there are always cheaper rates for "dealers", but I thought it more appropriate to compare prices for what the average joe would pay if he bought it off of Amsoils site.I might also remind you thats its very likely the citgo stuff could be had cheaperf rom a distrinutor as well.
BTW I was comparing saber air cooled, not saber outboard.
I also dont see the need to make personal attacks and derogatory comments into your posts. its really un called for and does nothing for your argument.
BTW I was comparing saber air cooled, not saber outboard.
I also dont see the need to make personal attacks and derogatory comments into your posts. its really un called for and does nothing for your argument.
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