I just tried some Mobil MX2T 2-cycle oil in a RedMax blower, and a RedMax stick-edger. I gotta say this stuff is very impressive! The engines revved higher and produced very little smoke, even at full throttle. I had been using Amsoil Saber 2-cycle oil for the last year or so, and the MX2T blows it away. I tried the Mobil based on recs from board members. Thanks guys! Next, I'll try it in the chainsaws.
MX2T is Great Stuff!
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Can you try a bottle of Red Line All-Sport next and see how it compares to MX2T?
--- Bror Jace
--- Bror Jace
I may try the Redline oil in the future, but right now I'm convinced that the MX2T oil is the best for 2-cycle equipment. I run a 32:1 mix for all my machines, and the MX2T runs almost smokeless. Even Opti-2 isn't this clean. The engines rev easier, too. I've tried lots of 2-cycle oils over the years, and never seen such a performance difference. Next, I'm going to try it in a 62cc chainsaw which gets run hard, and see what happens.
What ratio were you running the Saber at?
If you were going to discount the recommendations from Amsoil (100:1 or 80:1 commercial use) and run a normal oil ratio, why didn't you just purchase the dominator racing and run it at 32:1?
I checked out the manufactures recommendations for various pieces of equipment and noticed the larger equipment had a mix ratio of 50:1 and the smaller equipment had a 32:1 mix ratio recommendation. I also noticed that the smaller blowers didn't list a lifespan whereas the larger backpack blowers listed 300hrs as the lifespan. You should have run the Saber at 100 or 80 to 1 to get a true feel for its potential. No wonder it smoked more. Did you adust the carb to compensate for the mixture? Have you tried the MX2T at 16:1 to see if it smokes more? That would be about the equivelant to running a 100:1 oil at 32:1.
Remember, the cheapest oils out there are ok to run at 32:1 for your application. You seem to show no faith in synthetics superior properties. I am sure that your equipment would be better protected running at 50:1 with the MX2T versus the cheap oils run at 32:1.
How much better does the MX2T protect at 32:1 than it does at 50:1? Anybody done any testing on these small engines with limited lifetimes? Blano? Just wondering if you aren't just wasting 60% of the oil.
Ditto +100% for the 100:1 oils.
here's a little ratio comparison someone did:
*****http://www.locastros.com/piston_oil_ratios.htm*****
Take it FWIW, I just like to throw stuff like this out for debate.
*****http://www.locastros.com/piston_oil_ratios.htm*****
Take it FWIW, I just like to throw stuff like this out for debate.
From my testing with the last Amsoil(prior to saber) 100:1 formulation it burnt dirtier at 80:1 than mx2t at 32:1. It was also more expensive.To clarify, the piston crown and ring land area after being ran at 80:1 showed more deposits vs mx2t at a 32:1 ratio.
FWIW maoisl at one time said for severe service to use a 80-50:1 ratio.
FWIW I have seen a lot of anecdotal evidance that suggests using a 32:1 vs. a 50:1 ratio in a certain chainsaw popular with comercial fallers is the differance between a long and productive life and premature bearing failure.
Remember 50:1 oil ratios are the product of the OEM trying to keep the epa of their back by reducing visible smoke emmissions not whats in the best interest of the equipment.
BTW Mx2T works great and is smoke free at 20:1. I have never tested it at 16:1, but would imagine it would work great at that ratio in a high load situation like a 125cc shifter kart.
FWIW maoisl at one time said for severe service to use a 80-50:1 ratio.
FWIW I have seen a lot of anecdotal evidance that suggests using a 32:1 vs. a 50:1 ratio in a certain chainsaw popular with comercial fallers is the differance between a long and productive life and premature bearing failure.
Remember 50:1 oil ratios are the product of the OEM trying to keep the epa of their back by reducing visible smoke emmissions not whats in the best interest of the equipment.
BTW Mx2T works great and is smoke free at 20:1. I have never tested it at 16:1, but would imagine it would work great at that ratio in a high load situation like a 125cc shifter kart.
With the Dominator oil, it blew chunks of wet carbon out the exhaust at 32:1. Saber is better, but still nowhere near as clean as the MX2T. Plus, the engines perform dramatically better running the MX2T. They rev much higher and easier now. Never had that happen before. So, I cleaned out my local AutoZone's remaining supply of MX2T. Apparently, they aren't going to carry it anymore.
blano,
My question to you was directed at 32:1 vs 50:1 MX2T. You never answered with your testing if you thought 32:1 was significantly better than 50:1 and in what way or ways.
Your statement on MX2T running at 20:1 is a little generalized and implies all engines. I don't believe it to be true without jetting changes. Especially on a small aircooled weedwacker engine which this thread is about.
maoisl never said 80:1 until Saber came along and does not recommend nor did they recommend 50:1 ratios. They did say that it could be used at 50:1 but their written recommendations are 100:1 and 80:1 commercial usage.
I don't care to much for anecdotal evidence when it assumes all oils to be equal. If the evidence is specific to a certain oil then it becomes acceptable to me.
Here is a little anecdotal evidence of my own,
When I get a 2-stroke to play with I will be trying a variety of oils to satisfy my self curiosity. MX2T will be one of those I try out as will the cheapest Wallmart oil.
Most of us on this forum will probably agree that the statement "oil is oil" is not correct. This applies to 2-stroke oils too. An oil designed to be run at 100:1 in applications that call for 32:1 to 50:1 will perform best if used at the recommended 100:1 ration. Ditto for trying to get a 50:1 oil to perform at 100:1.
Those of us who have been on this forum for a while now know about your prejudice against maoisl. It is self evident. What you probably do not realize is that it weakens the arguments and opinions you put forth to those of us who read them.
[ April 10, 2005, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: wulimaster ]
Yes, I do believe 32:1 to be superior for MOST applications including weed wackers and especially chainsaws.
And to clarify the Amsoil I used was labeled as 100:1 or 80:1 for extreme conditions.
Let me also add that I have tested quit a few differant oils including all of the Amsoils current formulations save saber. Amsoil is of fair(100:1,interceptor)to poor quality(dominator,hp injector).
FWIW there are a few oils out there that are close to mx2t quality wise, but they dont sell for $3-3.75 per pint either.
I actually considered runnign the 100:1 marine oil amsoil has at the fishing lodge I operate as we go through a ton of oil. The problem is even at a 100:1 ratio its not cost effective to do so.
In response to the above statement I am a "show me the money type guy". Amsoil form the testing I have done and from the results I have seen with my own eyes falls short of other products that cost less in many cases.
Add to that their former use of misleading advertising and outright lieing on their website in regards to 2 cycle oils(which they have corrected. Thank you.)and I am more than a little sceptical of their products. Call it bias if you would like, but until their products prove otherwise my oppinion is concrete in nature.
Also keep in mind when comparing MX2T to any amsoil product that a ton of development and resources went into this oils development. The magnitude of which Amsoil isnt even capable of. In MX2T you have a product that basicl burns very clean while protecting a engine to the same levels that the old, low tech, high moleculer weight ester and castor based oils did.
In reality the approach amsoil has taken with 100:1 is to add a very high molecular weight base oil with a add pack that contains a high dose of mettalic AW adds. This approach works in that the engine will not seize imediatly, but IMO it also comprimises longitivity and performance. This approach will also preclude it from even coming close to passing the jaso FC or ISO EGD tests. These aforementioned tests have some of the actual bench tests ran at ultra rich ratios of around 16:1 if I remember right. This effectivly prevents oils like 100:1 from passing.
I took a good look at that link with the piston pics. The MX2t (I guess it is now "Mobil 1 Racing 2t") does look the best. I am not sure why the tester does not like the Mobil oil, as it clearly adds to his engine life. It certainly works well for me.
I do notice some plug fouling on my Husky 360 if I idle and lug it for long periods of time. Not unusual for this bike, as the low loading tends to foul plugs. I also use 50% Avgas which contributes to the spark plug fouling problem. I have discovered that the lead in Avgas also helps the 2 stroke engine life. I certainly have come upon a better way to keep my bike alive, as the combo of avgas and MX2t allows far more time between overhauls.
The MX2t is the best I have ever found.
Chris
I do notice some plug fouling on my Husky 360 if I idle and lug it for long periods of time. Not unusual for this bike, as the low loading tends to foul plugs. I also use 50% Avgas which contributes to the spark plug fouling problem. I have discovered that the lead in Avgas also helps the 2 stroke engine life. I certainly have come upon a better way to keep my bike alive, as the combo of avgas and MX2t allows far more time between overhauls.
The MX2t is the best I have ever found.
Chris
Since you run at 32:1 and Amsoil at 100:1, you would use 3.125 times more of the MX2T than the 100:1. This works out to a price greater than $9.375-$11.72 per pint for the Amsoil for it to not be cost effective. The last I checked, the Amsoil 100:1 for outboards was about $2.675 per pint when bought in a case of 12 quarts. Even less if bought in a 30 gallon drum. These are commercial pricing which your lodge would qualify for. I don't see the cost effectiveness you speak about.
Just finished several days of cutting orange trees with my 62cc chainsaw, using MX2T the whole time. I can definitely recommend this oil for any 2-cycle equipment. The engines rev much easier than before, and had more power from my saw. Again, almost no smoke. Next up for testing: Suzuki-powered Toro Pro-Line mower. Great stuff!
You also never told me why you thought MX2t at 32:1 was better than 40 or 50:1? Did wear increase at those higher ratios?
The boat motors at the lodge are not run on MX2T. Rather they are ran at 50:1 with a quality tcw3 oil. I ran the numbers and its much cheaper to continue with what we have been doing than to use amsoil 100:1.
Yes, I view using a32:1 ratio as a little insurance. MX2T would work fine at 50:1 in engine that specs a 50:1.
Granted jetting would have to be changed slightly, but this should be done daily anyway on a engine equiped with adjusters. I have never had a problem using a differant mix ratio in the engines I have owned with fixed jet carbs either.
because thats the approach that MFG's use to obtain a 100:1 ratio mix oil. This is well outlined in a SAE paper authored by I believe Shell.
Consider this. Not one MFG reccomends a 100:1 mix. I dont have any testing to prove this statement per say, but consider the fact that its very common knowledge amongst the tupe two cycle tuners that as load and rpm rise, so should your oil content.
It does so. High molecular weight base oils wether they be synthetic or petrol based have a very negative influance on smoke and deposit formation. Its for this reason that heavy weight brite stock has been replaced by PIB's in many of todays two cycle oil formulations.
BTW I would like to pose this question to you. Why is a Amsoil 100:1 oil advantageous?
Consider this. Not one MFG reccomends a 100:1 mix.
wuli- From yamaha online webpage advertising
http://www.lake-link.com/yamaha/outboardbuyingtips.cfm
100:1 Fuel
il ratio:Conventional 2-stroke outboards mix oil with gas for lubrication. Modern techniques have enabled quality manufacturers to produce engines with closer tolerances. Some manufacturers continue to produce older technology engines that typically use 50:1, or twice as much oil. The 100:1 ratio means less oil required (producing) less blue smoke, smoother running and an engine with a longer life. Be sure to use only Boating Industry Association (BIA) certified 2-cycle oil in your new outboard. Yamaha pioneered 100:1 fuel
il ratio in 1984. I wonder why Yamaha has been selling 100:1 oil for over 20 years when they don't recommend it????????
You should know as well as I that manufacturers quote an oil ratio that has some margin of safety built in for those who would use the budget oils.
Evinrude requires their premium oil for their etecs. If you want to run lower quality oils you have to have the ECM reprogrammed to inject more oil.
It does so. High molecular weight base oils wether they be synthetic or petrol based have a very negative influance on smoke and deposit formation. Its for this reason that heavy weight brite stock has been replaced by PIB's in many of todays two cycle oil formulations.
wuli- Are you saying Amsoil and others who produce synthetic 2-stroke oils uses heavy brite stock?
BTW I would like to pose this question to you. Why is a Amsoil 100:1 oil advantageous? [/QUOTE]
Protection, lower smoke, low deposits, economical compared to other high quality 50:1 oils including Amsoils own. Economical compared to other 100:1 synthetic oils? I don't know. I would have to see the prices of the other 100:1 oils.
I originally got into this thread when I read 416rigby talking about MX2T blowing away Saber. I suspected something was amiss and I was correct when he confirmed that he was running it at 32:1 in this application. About the only real difference I would have expected would be the difference in price. Now if he had said he was using Walmarts cheap oil and had switched to MX2T then I would have expected him to notice a big difference.
600 Nitro Express Double
do you always purchase in the smallest and least economical container sizes when choosing Amsoil products and choose larger more economical sizes for other oils when doing your comparison? Try $2.52 per quart equivalent Amsoil when purchased in bulk 30gal barrel at commercial price. That price includes shipment to your door. Looks like you are paying $1 more a quart than you have to. Is Citgo aircooled that much better that you feel the need to spend 40% more.quote:
Originally posted by blano:
[/QUOTE As for cost if you go by the prices on Amsoil website its not any cheaper. Citgo aircooled for instance can be had for $3.50 per quart. Even when you figure in the fact your using twice as much oil its still cheaper than Amsoilat $3.50 for a 8oz bottle.
And MX2T will blow away saber in every regard..
MX2T sure blows away Saber on price. Can you show me any testing results that show either to provide better protection than the other?
MX2T was designed for I believe GP racing cycles. High RPM, high horsepower, high load, liquid cooled engines. Most will not run it in weed wackers and backpack blowers in commercial applications due to the price so we will never see long term anecdotal evidence like we have seen from Amsoils 100:1. I read here quite often of users of 100:1 running their equipment on the same sparkplug for 7+ years and their equipment is still running like new without opening it up for repairs. MX2T hasn't been out that long yet so I don't think we will ever see if it outperforms 100:1 because someone would have to have been using it since it was introduced and it still wouldn't have exceeded the long term usage I have seen with Amsoil.
Anyone wear out a trimmer/weedwacker,lawn mower using Amsoil yet? How about wearing out a spark plug? I don't mean those who ran it at other than its recommended ratios or didn't adjust the fuel/air correctly.
MX2T may be great for its originally intended application but I don't see were it saves enough money in maintenance over other oils to justify its use in other applications over other premium oils.
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