Multi-vehicle vs Vehicle Specific ATF's

[Winston]

Redline makes a bunch of different ATF fluids, specifically for different makes of vehicles. Why does Amsoil insist on having a Universal fluid? The different mfg's must have different requirements, like the amount of friction modifiers, and of course viscosity. I would think Amsoil would sell more ATF fluid if they had more "application specific" fluids.

Of course, Pennzoil has followed Amsoils lead and come out with a Multivehicle ATF. OTOH Mobil makes a bunch of different ATF's. (although some are hard to find)

Just ranting.

Oh, and I am not trying to dis Amsoils ATF. I am sure it is a great fluid. It is just that calling something "Universal" just leaves me thinking there were too many compromises made.

 

[Steelers]

The fact that many people report excellent results using these multivehicle fluids (M1, Amsoil, Maxlife etc.) in a wide variety of makes and models leads me to think that there's not as much difference between these fluids as we may think. Certainly, there's no harm in using a specific formula but it seems unnecessary (except for Honda/Acura.) The most important thing is to change the fluid, and filter if required, whether with a multivehicle or OEM fluid at a reasonable interval.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:

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except for Honda/Acura

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Amsoil spec's Z-1.

I use Amsoil ATF in an ATF+4 tranny and so far so good. I think if there were real problems with these fluids they would be showing up all over the net on nearly every car forum since they can be used in so many makes. I've only seen one person on this board complain about Amsoil's shifting...that's it.

 

[Pablo]

Actually Amsoil makes 4+ types of ATF.

ATF - Universal (but Pablo doesn't like in MT's)
ART - Supershift (a good choice for MT's that really require AT)
ATD - Torque Drive (Dex III also good in MT's)
CTX - Powershift series (for trucks)

Click on the ATF's here

 

[unDummy]

This topic is brought up every month.

I don't see compromises. Multivehicle fluids meet and usually exceed the best specs of all the requirements. How is that a compromise?

Most application specs are pretty lame. Combine them to make a superior spec.

 

[Winston]

Quote:

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I don't see compromises. Multivehicle fluids meet and usually exceed the best specs of all the requirements. How is that a compromise?

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Two compromises for sure. 1. amount of friction modifier. 2. Viscosity.

Why does lubegaurd have different products if there is no need for compromises?

Pablo, thanks for the info. It seems like Amsoil has a similar range of ATF as Redline. I should have researched more first.

 

[unDummy]

I don't see any compromises. I see 'target' markets.

Lubegard red can be used with any ATF. Its an easy way to add the LXE ester to any automatic.
Black/Green are their HFM additives. I've heard that one might include pour point depressants to meet a certain cold spec that.
Platinum adds an AW/EP additive along with the HFM additive.

Viscosity, the only compromise is with the newer thin MPG fluids(ZF, VI, WS, SP). Last time I checked, there weren't any lubegard products converting a thick ATF to a thin ATF. And, the 1 point CST range at 212F(not even normal operating temp) is nothing to argue over. Motor oils have 3.2cst or more for each label spec.

Concerning friction modification, most fluids spec the life for the HFM component and the friction level. Since each spec has a range, a multivehicle ATF will usually fall into the average of all the ranges.

Concerning seal and material compatibility, I prefer a fluid that meets multi-specs.

Concerning cold weather pumpability, the synthetics have been 20years ahead of the automakers requirements.

<> are still very common in fluid specs. So, I don't see any compromises.

 

[JHZR2]

Quote:

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Actually Amsoil makes 4+ types of ATF.

ATF - Universal (but Pablo doesn't like in MT's)
ART - Supershift (a good choice for MT's that really require AT)
ATD - Torque Drive (Dex III also good in MT's)
CTX - Powershift series (for trucks)

Click on the ATF's here

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Not to steal this thread, but is there an ATF that is specifically designed for MTs that spec an ATF to be used? i.e. a fluid with ATF-type specs, but with an additive package that is less tuned to the chemistry of clutch packs and AT comnponents, and more tuned to the conditions inside of a MT?

Thanks,

JMH

 

[1maniac]

FWIW, I was told the my BMW ZF transmission would blow if I used anything but European Shell LA2634 fluid. This fluid is not available in the USA and is very very pricey if you can find someone to ship it to the USA. I was also told that BMW discovered that the fluid is not "lifetime" as was put in my 1994 owners manual but that I could discuss which fluid to use in my new tranny once the original the tranny failed.

After some research I have had great luck with Redline D4, Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle, QS Multi-Vehicle and yes Amsoil Universal.

She is still going strong.

My 2 cents.

 

[The Critic]

Quote:

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Why does lubeguard have different products if there is no need for compromises?

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Lubegard has the RED, GREEN, BLACK, and PLATINUM products. The RED bottle is added to the correct ATF, the green bottle is added to convert Dexron III into Mercon V, the BLACK bottle is used to convert Dexron III into a variety of HFM type fluids, but NOT Mercon-V, and the PLATINUM does everything the RED, GREEN, and BLACK bottles do.

I used SuperTech Dexron IIIH and Lubegard BLACK in a 2001 Acura CL Type-S last week. 6 ounces was added to the final drain and refill (three total). The formerly neck jerking shift has been transformed into a smooth, firm engagement and the slip/flare is no worse than before.

 

[TimVipond]

I find this chart pretty useful in matching the correct AMSOIL product with a specific transmission. https://www.amsoil.com/products/transmission/transfluid_rec.aspx .

 

[Pablo]

That chart needs an update. Like GM, I don't recommend using Dex VI in manual gear boxes.

 

[Winston]

Thanks for all the info on Lubegaurd. However, I still don't understand what the Red bottle does.

 

[Winston]

Oh, and Undummy. You did make a very clear and thorough argument as to why Multivehicle fluids work. Thanks.

 

[74DartSport]

I'm going to change the fluid in my Mopar 41TE this weekend and came across this- .pdf of Formula Shell Multi Vehicle ATF
I'm a tad worried about the one size fits none kinda deals but I'm willing to give it a try.
Opinions?

 

[unDummy]

This is what lubegard does:
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf.html

Good luck with the Shell Multi-vehicle ATF. I've never seen it in the local stores, which usually carry store brands, Castrol, or Pennzoil universal ATFs. I wonder if the Shell is the same as the Pennzoil(SOPUS) ATF.

 

[74DartSport]

Pulled the data sheets and it appears to be the same.