MTX-75 fluid alternatives

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UncleRunkle

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Jan 2, 2006
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Woodbridge, VA
Looking for the “perfect” tranny fluid for my 1996 Ford contour MTX-75 5-spd trans. It’s been rebuilt by the proclaimed guru of these cog boxes and it has a Quaife TBD and an electric pump driven, direct lubrication system to all the synchros, that also runs the fluid through a filter (NAPA gold 1315). Basicaly I'm looking for the best protection of the all the soft metal and gearing as well as smooth shifting, don't really care about gear noise as the Quaife and oil pump are quite noisy.

About the tranny and its needs:
*Aluminum case
*No hypoid bevel gears at all so no need of EP additives.
*Heavy EP lube will reduce the effectiveness of syncro blocker rings due to its high resistance to pressure.

The stock MTX has all it gears with a helical gear cut, helical gear cuts do not need an EP/GL lube as the teeth pressure is lower. Semi helical and straight cut gears and, in RWD rear ends with a 'hypoid bevel' gear cut do need an EP oil.

GL style lubes are for high tooth pressure gear cuts, the MTX75 does not have a hypoid, straight or semi-helical cut on any gear teeth except the 'stock diff' sun & planet gears.

Also worth noting is that an 'EP' lube with a Quaife or Torsen will REDUCE the effectiveness of the ATB diff. An ATB diff balances torque to each side by the friction 'end load' of the spiral cut diff pinions pressing on the diff carrier case. Using an 'EP" lube will reduce the end thrust friction of these pinions on the case and affect the torque bias...not good.


About the Ford fluid:

ATF fluids are NOT the current spec for ANY MTX75, that was changed in 2000 by a Ford TSB that was very specific and states that the Honey fluid from Ford, XT-M5-QS is the current spec and carried back to the FIRST MTX75's in '95...so ATF should be out of the picture.

According to the current Ford spec sheet honey is NOT a GL-4 trans fluid, Ford honey is ...'a synthetic european blend engine oil. The only GL-4 listed is F32Z-19C547-MA, honey has never had a GL-4 spec. This lube is sold everywhere by Castrol ,but not in the USA....Castrol’s take was' not enough manuals to merit export to USA'..the honey lube XT-M5-QS, is covered by Fords spec number WSD-M2C200-C

Ford Lube specs

Honey VOA

The competitors:

Evidently AMSoil says that it has a product that meets the Genuine Ford Spec # WSD-M2C200-C, but I couldn’t find it on the website.

Royal Purple Syncromax matches the Ford spec for honey (and is NOT GL/EP style gear lubes as R/Line MTL is).

So, what say all those who ply the murky waters of manual tranny fluid technology and spec?

Final thoughts, here in Hawaii the Ford fluid sells for $33/qt!!! RP goes for 8.99/qt can’t find an AMSoil dealer out here. I’m not sure what Torco offers, but I think they have a “compatible” fluid.
 
No need to find a dealer in Hawaii, I'm your huckleberry.
grin.gif


quote:
Ford honey is ...'a synthetic european blend engine oil.
Click to expand...
Amsoil says to use the 5W-40 motor oil. $6.85/qt But it dittos this:

quote:
2. SLF is MT fluid meeting spec.
WSD-M2C200-C
3. When replacing fluid, add 1.8 oz. (52 ml) of additive .
specification No. EZL-401.
Click to expand...
It doesn't take very much, it isn't super expensive and I'm thinking it'll work great in Hawaii. I would be really worried a cold place.

GREAT POST, BTW!!!
 
quote:
Amsoil says to use the 5W-40 motor oil. $6.85/qt But it dittos this:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. SLF is MT fluid meeting spec.
WSD-M2C200-C
3. When replacing fluid, add 1.8 oz. (52 ml) of additive .
specification No. EZL-401.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It doesn't take very much, it isn't super expensive and I'm thinking it'll work great in Hawaii. I would be really worried a cold place.

GREAT POST, BTW!!!
Click to expand...
I found the info on AMsoil's site finally(I was looking for "SLF", but the product is actually "AFL"), but what is the EZL-401? a friction modifier? I'm in the Army, so getting sent to Washington state, upstate New York, or even Alaska, isn't out of the question.
 
So Uncle, you went out and got you a Bull-dog box huh? What kind of hp are you pushing to require that box? I've seen TH preparing one at his shop, and I remember him stating that they're $$$. I guess with that type of expense, I'd be squirming about fluid as well.

What's your handle on CEG?
 
quote:
*No hypoid bevel gears at all so no need of EP additives.
Click to expand...
All trannies need EP additives irregardless of the gear cut.


quote:

*Heavy EP lube will reduce the effectiveness of syncro blocker rings due to its high resistance to pressure.
Click to expand...
EP additives affect wear, not friction modification.

Our MTL-R is speced for the Non-ATF contour Tranny.
 
The Ford Lubrication catalog does say that the current synthetic brew can be used where GL4 75W90 fluid is specified. It may not say it is a GL4 fluid, but it sure comes close.

The Ford Honey works well, but I truly doubt that it is the only or even the best fluid for that thans. I have it in my car now (with 2 oz of Ford friction modifier added). I'm especially upset that Ford gets $20.00 a quart for it ($35.00 a quart in Hawaii!). When it is time to replace it, I'll probably try MolaKules's MTL-R.

If blended right, there is no disadvantage to using a GL4 or GL5 fluid. Most important of all is that the complete package is appropriate for a manual trans, not a differential.

There has been a recent scare about lubrication failure on that trans when using RedLine MTL. RedLine seems to not care. It is possible that it was a batch problem, but I'm staying away from it. It should have worked, but some have had extreme sludge problems so bad that the diff spyder gear shaft lubrication channels became plugged and the shafts had extreme wear.

Anyway, I'm going to try MolaKules brew next time.
 
why not use what ford says and test it once in a while?

Honey oil VOA says from lab looks like a syn 15/40 diesel they did not show sulfur or antimony but the discriptiuon sound like it so use a syn delo 15/40.
bruce
 
quote:
So Uncle, you went out and got you a Bull-dog box huh? What kind of hp are you pushing to require that box? I've seen TH preparing one at his shop, and I remember him stating that they're $$$. I guess with that type of expense, I'd be squirming about fluid as well.

What's your handle on CEG?
Click to expand...
Yep, it's a bulldog box. I bought a 0 miles factory seconds trans from a yard in MI for $75 and a Quaife from a focus friend for $350 so I got by a little cheaper than most. Mine's a zetec with a GT3071R. When the new block goes in hoping for 400+ at the wheels. I am absolutely maniacal about proper lubrication, you should see what I've done for the new engine. I am Ohsigmachi on CEG/FCO/COA/NECO/Focaljet (I tried to get it here, but the superstrict registration policy gave me problems and I locked myself out of the name!!).

quote:
All trannies need EP additives irregardless of the gear cut.
Click to expand...
But the MTX-75 doesn't need them in near the amount that tranaxles w/ hypoid/semi-helical/straight "cut" gears.

P.S. its "regardless of"

quote:
EP additives affect wear, not friction modification.
Click to expand...
I know, I am wondering how the massive EP packages of your product effect wear in the soft metals over time.

quote:
The Ford Honey works well, but I truly doubt that it is the only or even the best fluid for that thans.
Click to expand...
I agree.

quote:
If blended right, there is no disadvantage to using a GL4 or GL5 fluid.
Click to expand...
I don't know enough to agree. I am still leary of GL style lubricants and the damage they may cause to the alloys inside this particular trans.

quote:
There has been a recent scare about lubrication failure on that trans when using RedLine MTL.
Click to expand...
That is what prompted this post.

quote:
Honey oil VOA says from lab looks like a syn 15/40 diesel they did not show sulfur or antimony but the discriptiuon sound like it so use a syn delo 15/40.
Click to expand...
This is the idea I've been toying with. I just wanted to gather more info before I pull the trigger.
 
I'm looking into a `99 SVT contour for my brother so if we were to buy it, just so I don't get this wrong, the name of the honey fluid is XT-M5-QS and the part # is WSD-M2C200-C? Does anynone also know what the name/part # for the friction modifier commonly used with the fluid? Thanks in advance!

[ May 07, 2006, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: windnsea00 ]
 
run a straght wt 40 diesel oil. like delo or rotella. "regular multi wts will shear down in a gearbox use a straight grade.
bruce
 
Well that just confused me more lol. I checked out Molakule's site though so if his MTL-R is a good/safe oil then I might go for it but it's easier to just drive to the local Ford dealer to get their fluid if it's good also.

[ May 07, 2006, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: windnsea00 ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by windnsea00:
I'm looking into a `99 SVT contour for my brother so if we were to buy it, just so I don't get this wrong, the name of the honey fluid is XT-M5-QS and the part # is WSD-M2C200-C? Does anynone also know what the name/part # for the friction modifier commonly used with the fluid? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
XL-3 from your friendly Ford dealer. Use a half bottle (2 oz).
 
I am having my tranny rebuilt by TH now.

I spoke to him at length about this topic and he was very insistant on using the Ford Honey or at worst the Royal Purple stuff. That english accent can be quite convincing.

Edit:Oh and since you have a Quaife, no friction modifier is needed. Since it is a helical type LSD and not a clutch type.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Big Jim:
XL-3 from your friendly Ford dealer. Use a half bottle (2 oz).
Click to expand...
Terry, the tranny guru from contour.org, has specifically advised against that.

Has anyone tried Molakule's SpecialtyFormulations.com MTL-R or MTL-P fluids?
Which one fits the MTX-75 the best?
 
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