Motorcraft FL-400s - 4,000 miles

[jeepman3071]

This filter came off my Jeep Cherokee 4.0 after a 4,000 mile OCI. The media looked okay, and the ADBV was still functioning well.

Something in the following picture is not right:

Yes, that is the top end cap sitting next to the filter. It fell out when I opened up the can.

More pics of the end cap:

A few notes:

This filter was only in use for 4,000 miles. The Jeep is not driven very hard at all.

While every filter has the occasional failure, of the 3 filters I have cut open in the past few months, 2 of them have had end cap failures. This filter and a Bosch D+. What is interesting to me, is that I have cut open FL-400s filters before and they looked great. Those filters were purchased at Advance Auto. Both this FL-400s and the Bosch D+ with end cap failure were purchased at WalMart. That is not to say WalMart filters are of lesser quality, but it does make me wonder, considering the ONLY filters I've opened that have failed have been from WalMart. I'd say I purchase about 40% of my filters from WalMart, 10% from Autozone, and the other 50% from Advance and Napa.

 

[KCJeep]

Wow I don't think I've ever seen that on a Motorcraft, a few Puro's though. Not good. This is why we keep cutting filters, you can learn something.

I am a huge FL-400s fanboy but this is very disappointing to me. Typical FL-400s with a bazillion pleats, one of their more endearing features but not with the endcap coming off.

As always, thanks for cutting and posting!

 

[SF0059]

Very interesting indeed. I have an App D+ with 8k on it ready to be cut open. I will be interested to see if the end held up. I will post it on here when I get around to it.

 

[KCJeep]

The last two Motorcrafts I cut, and a Purolator, I could not even get the endcaps to budge using as much force as I could with my bare hands. So how on earth do they make one that just falls off? Puzzling.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The last two Motorcrafts I cut, and a Purolator, I could not even get the endcaps to budge using as much force as I could with my bare hands. So how on earth do they make one that just falls off? Puzzling.


My thoughts exactly. I'm disappointed to say the least, but also a bit puzzled. I've run this exact filter on the same engine (other 4.0s as well), with the same oil, for almost the same amount of time and they look fine. Sure every filter maker has even a small percentage of failure, but I find it a bit alarming that out of the last 3 I cut, 2 had failed end caps. Both times it seemed like the glue didn't adhere very well, because the caps fell cleanly off. No glue residue stuck to the caps.

I was lucky I did a short OCI with this filter, but I know some use Motorcrafts and follow an oil life monitor.

I'm not sure if it was just coincidence or what, but both failed filters were purchased from WalMart. The next filter for the Jeep will be a Wix, since I have one 1085 left. After that I will buy filters from Advance for the vehicles I service and compare results just to see.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I'm not sure if it was just coincidence or what, but both failed filters were purchased from WalMart.


Probably nothing to do with Walmart specifically, but it does make me think there would have been a decent chance both failed filters came from the same lot.

I wonder if Puro knows about this, or if they even care?

On the positive side, the oil pressure would be pushing the endcap on, not off, but it still wouldn't be holding the pleats like it was supposed to be with no glue bond.

 

[Jim Allen]

Endcaps coming off due to poor bonding of the potting material to the metal is not unusual and not generally a cause to worry. If the potting material stays intact, then spring pressure is enough to seal the metal to it and there is no bypass. That comes from a couple of oil filter pros. If the potting is cracked, broken or if the media has pulled out or torn at the potting, then you have a problem. Overall it isn't a good sign but not a death sentence or a reason to hate all MCs, or any brand. I've had a couple (Wix & Puro) and seen a few more here. This is one reason Fram likes the fiber endcaps... you don't see this because the glue bonds well to the fiber.

 

[dlundblad]

This makes me slightly disappointed. I bought the fl820s for my dads 6.2. It'll get ran for 6000 miles then I'll be sure to post pics of that as well.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Hyde244]

It is worth point out that while the top end cap came off upon deconstruction, the filter assembly is pressed together within the canister - there is no "wiggle" room for pieces to come apart.

So while it may have been a weak adhesive binding the filter media and top end cap in your filter, it could be possible that a seal was still present as the two elements were pressed together within the assembly.

 

[gfh77665]

I would think JA and 244 are correct. Some guy (was it JOD? I can't remember) was running MC's to 10K without issues. Thanks, 3071, for the pics.

 

[Joenpb]

If you hang around here long enough you'll see almost every $4 or $5 filter will have a failure of some kind. Good luck.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
I would think JA and 244 are correct. .

+1 As JA previously said, as long as the potting material is intact, then pressure from the leaf spring would prevent any oil bypass.

Since Fram was already mentioned as comparison, how much fiber end cap area covers the tip/end of the centertube at the dome end, also held on only by leaf spring pressure? Based on my observation it's much less (crimp's width and the fiber endcap's thickness) than the area by the endcap covered in the MC in the pic, the depth of the pleats. Difference to me, one falls off or comes off by design, the MC here didn't stay adhered on dissection. That said, it would be preferable that the end cap be adhered on dissection as designed.

As for any implied Walmart connection, seems like tin foil hat stuff to me.

Thanks for the pics.

 

[gregk24]

Dont think its a death sentence, but its certainly not something you want to see. This is another reason I like Fram and there fiber end caps. Ive used quite a few Filtec and Fram made Honda OEM filters and none have ever had an issue. I have a Fram Ultra on deck for the next OCI, but I believe the end caps are welded onto the metal mesh screen. I could be wrong though.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
I have a Fram Ultra on deck for the next OCI, but I believe the end caps are welded onto the metal mesh screen. I could be wrong though.


On the Ultra, the metal mesh along with the media is potted/glued to the metal end cap just like all other metal end cap filters are.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I have a Fram Ultra on deck for the next OCI, but I believe the end caps are welded onto the metal mesh screen. I could be wrong though.


On the Ultra, the metal mesh along with the media is potted/glued to the metal end cap just like all other metal end cap filters are.


Ok, not that it makes a huge difference to me. I wont be running it so long that that would be a concern.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I have a Fram Ultra on deck for the next OCI, but I believe the end caps are welded onto the metal mesh screen. I could be wrong though.


On the Ultra, the metal mesh along with the media is potted/glued to the metal end cap just like all other metal end cap filters are.


Ok, not that it makes a huge difference to me. I wont be running it so long that that would be a concern.


Well, it's rated for 15K miles so that tells you something about the construction in terms of robustness.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I have a Fram Ultra on deck for the next OCI, but I believe the end caps are welded onto the metal mesh screen. I could be wrong though.


On the Ultra, the metal mesh along with the media is potted/glued to the metal end cap just like all other metal end cap filters are.


Ok, not that it makes a huge difference to me. I wont be running it so long that that would be a concern.


Well, it's rated for 15K miles so that tells you something about the construction in terms of robustness.


Oh yeah, I know its an excellent filter. Ill probably run in for two OCI's, as long as it doesnt make my engine tick like one of them did last time.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
I would think JA and 244 are correct. Some guy (was it JOD? I can't remember) was running MC's to 10K without issues. Thanks, 3071, for the pics.


That's me.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

This won't stop me from using MC FL-400S filters.

 

[Sayjac]

Learned something new (not). Ultra welds the wire mesh to the endcaps. Trying to picture exactly how that would work on the assembly line without damaging the synthetic media. Or how the media would be attached after the mesh was welded. All this while still maintaining ~$9 WW price point. Only thing missing would be the Ultra having the synthetic media welded and no potting/glue used at all. Now that would be a feat.

Strange to me, with the many Ultra dissections posted here both new and used, never read where one poster noted the screen being welded to the end caps. Does lend credence imo to the point I noted on a recent Classic dissection thread about these anecdotes being used for another agenda. My.02

Quote:
This won't stop me from using MC FL-400S filters.

No reason for it to. Best to ignore the negative nancys and note the common sense posts in this thread and others regarding negative anecdotes.