Motorcraft 5w20 w/SPOT 04 Honda Odessey 3.5L

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First off Mark at Butler Mach. has got to be one of the best guys I know of. He went out of his way to help me. Thanks Mark
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Honda Odyssey 3.5L VTEC
Driving Type 70/30 highway/city
15,001 miles at Oil Change(OC)
OCI 10-18-04 thru 2-7-05
Motorcraft 5w20Premium Synthetic Blend SL, API Service SM,SL ILSAC GF-4.
Added 5 oz Synpower Oil Treatment(SPOT) at OC.
Oversized PureONE PL24458 carried over from previos OC, total miles at OC on filter 9,119.
No Oil added.
Previous oil was the same but with 15oz of SPOT.

Viscosity held from what I calculate as 11.1 new down to 9.9 used with the 5oz Synpower.
32oz(5w20) x 9.1cst = 291+ 75cst x 1oz(SPOT) = 366 / 33oz = 11.1cst


The following was from Mark(Stinky)with Butler Mach.
quote:


As I mentioned using additives and not having a reference oil affect the FTIR readings in an unpredictable way. When your report first went out we didn't have the reference oil loaded so our program strips out the numbers because the values it gets from an autoreferenced sample (the procedure we use without a reference oil) are just plane wrong and only have a 1 in 4 chance of being right. We should not report the value when people use additives either because there is also a high degree of uncertainty, however like yourself, people demand that we do things that are not always in their best interest so we gave you the numbers even though they are not accurate. You should ignore them.

As for the viscosity I would not worry about it. In theory your calculations should be valid or at least when combining oil, however the additives may act differently. As a rule we don't advocate the use of additives and I have never seen a measurable difference when one is used with the exception of viscosity changes. Cat has an STP-like oil that is used in special cases but that is the only one we prescribe. Since our goal is to help our customers get lowest operating cost (not just fuel and lube but total ownership costs), the additives do not justify their cost.

The particle count is completely normal for a gas engine. This is what we call a baseline high error and all it means is that the oil is too dark or too opaque for the laser to past through. We have to do a dilution on these samples and that's why we charge extra. We can run 1 particle count per minute for non-engine samples but takes about 15 - 20 minutes to do the dilution and even then we are not always successful.

Now for the good news, your filter is doing a very good job. I ran a microscope exam and it shows no metal particles at all and very little of anything else. The copper is a little high but there is no copper wear particles visible so this tells us it is not wear but instead a chemical reaction that could be caused by the additive. We see elevated copper when people switch brands of oil or when the oil additive package is changed so it stands to reason that when you add something to the oil it could drive up the copper. The changes affect coatings on copper parts so it is not harmful.

I'm still a little concerned that the oil condition given by the FTIR is so far out from normal.

Any comments welcome.
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Could Synpower oil Treatment NOT be the way to go? hmmmm.

I've used it at a 1oz to 1 quart ratio in the past. But now I'm not so sure this will be my path in the future. I'm waiting to see how some VOA's for the new Mobil 7500 and M1 5W-20 come back.
 
Advice from a non-expert would be to NOT add anything to these oils. The formulators work hours upon hours blending oils for the best available performance. I would NOT try to play chemist and add things to oil. I'd only add FP and AutoRx for cleaning and ONLY bc they have been tested by respectable chemists/tribologists on BITOG. Mark knows his stuff.
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[ May 06, 2005, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by benjamming:
Copper is typical of a Honda V6. Nothing new there. It's good to hear about the oil filter.

Why did you use SPOT?


I was looking for a boost in the add pack and the viscosity. Which turned out nicely.

Really I don't think the wear values are out of line with what I have seen on some other 3.5L Honda's with comparable miles. Question is did it help or hurt? Neither, I think?

I was a little nervious about running a PureONE that long but Honda recomends changing the filter every other oil change. Since it's an oversize I figured it would probably be fine.

See the VOA?
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