Motor Trend "long-term" Giulia Update

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by wings&wheels

My thing is that this "experience" is entirely nebulous and largely whatever you convince yourself it is.

For example,there's really nothing a Land Rover can objectively offer that a Land Cruiser can't, except the "experience" of constantly having to fix your broken down Leyland.



Old Rovers or new? Since Leyland ceased existence ~20 years ago I'll assume old....I get to experience dissimilar metal corrosion (AL body) vs. plain old rust....




The newer ones are even worse, at least the old ones were simple, so you could fix them on the side of the road when they broke. The new models, larded up with every techno gizmo in existence, are likely going to require frequent towing to the dealership.

There's a reason why these companies have gone broke so many times, you know. When Lada can build a better Land Rover than Land Rover can, you're really in trouble.


You clearly don't work on newer cars. If you have the right tools, they are simpler to diagnose and fix than ever before. You also have never been in an Alfa. Even a well equipped model has less techno wizardry than a well equipped Accord or Malibu. You are buying it for a pleasurable driving experience...if you don't know what I am talking about, then don't buy one.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by PimTac
Do you really need to go there?


Someone made fun of boring yet reliable appliance vehicles. So apparently yes, we have to go after the Germans.

Kind of hard to be unreliable when most of the "reliable" rated vehicles are pretty understressed and not meant to invoke any sort of excitement at all. Unless your idea of "excitement" is using 1/3 throttle for 5 seconds.

I've never driven my Camry for excitement but I do know I've used more than 1/2 throttle for more than 10 seconds at a time. All it takes is an underpowered car attempting to accelerate up a minor hill to bring out some rev's.

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by supton

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

There's a lot of truth to that. My Clubman, Club Sport, and Wrangler are very slow(0-60 in over 8 seconds) while the X1 is average at best(0-60 in 6.0 seconds). My 2er is the only car that I can call fast with a relatively straight face(0-60 in 4.3 seconds).
Having said all that, each one of the above is entertaining in its own unique way, and I truly enjoy spending time behind the wheel of every one of them.

 

[supton]

heh, supposedly my truck will do 0-60 in 7.9 if I trust the internet. All my other vehicles are probably closer to 10 than they are to 8. Some day I should find an app for my phone and test them.

Sad thing is, they are still the fastest vehicles I've had...

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by supton
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

Never understood this.

It's more fun to drive a fast car fast, I think.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by supton
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

Never understood this.

It's more fun to drive a fast car fast, I think.

I'm sure it is, but to do so don't you have to be on a track, and then use tires that cost more than my car does, and then replace them often? I know I wouldn't care for that.

I can beat on my car on a daily basis and no one is the wiser. Beat on a fast car and if anyone else is on the road they will know. Plus it's a bit harder to get in over my head.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by supton

I can beat on my car on a daily basis and no one is the wiser. Beat on a fast car and if anyone else is on the road they will know. Plus it's a bit harder to get in over my head.


My Club Sport only makes 150 hp- and that's with a Conforti chip installed; to make anything close to rapid progress you need to keep the motor north of 4000 rpm. I can beat on it like a red-headed stepchild and nobody will notice. On the other hand, if I hammer the 2er I can find myself going 100+ mph in almost no time- so you really do need to take it to a road course if you want to push the envelope. And it IS fun to surprise some folks at the Stop Light Grand Prix...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by RamFan
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies

It's probably going to be in the shop all the time anyway.


You're missing the point entirely. Alfa has notoriously been lacking in the reliability department. The Giulia and Stelvio have been proving otherwise. Yes, they haven't been in the market long, but with the exception of a few bad apples, ownership among drivers has been a great experience with these two vehicles.


Aren't these the same cars that were breaking down on press drives?

CR still has them rated as low as you can be in their ratings, and I'm not inclined to believe that Alfa can make a reliable car, or even one that's not hideously unreliable, until I see it.

Fans of cars will convince themselves of a lot of things, the numbers tell a different story.

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
I'd wager the plugs are copper, which performs a little better but doesn't last nearly as long. For a regular car, no one wants to change plugs all the time, but I suppose for a performance car like the Giulia, Fiat figures people won't mind.

It's probably going to be in the shop all the time anyway.

I had 1999 Lancia Lybra 2.4 JTD, and in 425k km never seen anything except regular maintenance.
Had 1996 Alfa Romeo 146 1.6 Boxer, and in some 250k km same thing, just regular maintenance.


The Ship of Theseus had "regular maintenence", too.

Both manuals.
Regular maintenance included: belts, spark plugs on Alfa, water pumps every 120k km, and on Lancia one set of glow plugs and one EGR.
Never changed fluid in manual transmission or differentials. Brake fluid every two years.
But, I know people in South Dakota know better.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by supton
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

Never understood this.

It's more fun to drive a fast car fast, I think.


It is, but not on public roads. Even my v6 300 will get me into "jail time" territory quickly.


Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by PimTac
Do you really need to go there?


Someone made fun of boring yet reliable appliance vehicles. So apparently yes, we have to go after the Germans.

Kind of hard to be unreliable when most of the "reliable" rated vehicles are pretty understressed and not meant to invoke any sort of excitement at all. Unless your idea of "excitement" is using 1/3 throttle for 5 seconds.

I've never driven my Camry for excitement but I do know I've used more than 1/2 throttle for more than 10 seconds at a time. All it takes is an underpowered car attempting to accelerate up a minor hill to bring out some rev's.

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

I didn't think of that lol... but that's not fun!

I remember my little 2011 Kia Forte Koup. It wasn't fast, 0-60 in roughly 8 seconds, but it was incredibly fun to throw through corners and you could keep it pinned for quite some time without really exceeding highway speed limits.

 

[Vikas]

Question:- Does the engine need to come out to replace those 30K spark plugs? If not, what is the big deal? If the replacement is 5 minute per plug, it is not an issue.

By the way, you guys need to learn and stop feeding the troll(s)

 

[555]

Originally Posted by Vikas
Question:- Does the engine need to come out to replace those 30K spark plugs? If not, what is the big deal? If the replacement is 5 minute per plug, it is not an issue.

By the way, you guys need to learn and stop feeding the troll(s)


Agreed.
Please! No one mention Danica!

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted by Vikas
Question:- Does the engine need to come out to replace those 30K spark plugs? If not, what is the big deal? If the replacement is 5 minute per plug, it is not an issue.


No it does not. It's quite simple. Remove the engine cover, remove the coil pack then remove the plugs. Bing. Bang. Boom.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by RamFan

No it does not. It's quite simple. Remove the engine cover, remove the coil pack then remove the plugs. Bing. Bang. Boom.


But what do the people who don't own Alfas say? After all, they have the most accurate information.

 

[wings&wheels]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by RamFan

No it does not. It's quite simple. Remove the engine cover, remove the coil pack then remove the plugs. Bing. Bang. Boom.


But what do the people who don't own Alfas say? After all, they have the most accurate information.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by RamFan

No it does not. It's quite simple. Remove the engine cover, remove the coil pack then remove the plugs. Bing. Bang. Boom.


But what do the people who don't own Alfas say? After all, they have the most accurate information.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by RamFan
Originally Posted by Vikas
Question:- Does the engine need to come out to replace those 30K spark plugs? If not, what is the big deal? If the replacement is 5 minute per plug, it is not an issue.


No it does not. It's quite simple. Remove the engine cover, remove the coil pack then remove the plugs. Bing. Bang. Boom.

Would sign for that any time compared to 120k interval in Toyota Sienna with 3 spark plugs being somewhere around cup holders.

 

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by RamFan
Originally Posted by Vikas
Question:- Does the engine need to come out to replace those 30K spark plugs? If not, what is the big deal? If the replacement is 5 minute per plug, it is not an issue.


No it does not. It's quite simple. Remove the engine cover, remove the coil pack then remove the plugs. Bing. Bang. Boom.

Would sign for that any time compared to 120k interval in Toyota Sienna with 3 spark plugs being somewhere around cup holders.


Its a longitudinal I4, how hard can it be? Worst case you need to maybe remove the cross brace, otherwise it is an engine cover and boom...right there.

 

[edyvw]

Quote
Its a longitudinal I4, how hard can it be? Worst case you need to maybe remove the cross brace, otherwise it is an engine cover and boom...right there.

Smart Italians, they pushed that engine farther back than even BMW. It is beauty just to look at it.

 

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Its a longitudinal I4, how hard can it be? Worst case you need to maybe remove the cross brace, otherwise it is an engine cover and boom...right there.

Smart Italians, they pushed that engine farther back than even BMW. It is beauty just to look at it.


Yup, it has perfect 50/50 weight distribution

 

[jimbrewer]

Hard to go from unreliable to reliable overnight. Took the US industry maybe 8 years to start to get it together in the 1980s.

On the other hand, the bogey for them is just BMW. Pretty doable target.