I tried to be diligent about keeping up with undercoating on a couple of cars, but found that they would rust where I couldn't coat. I've been less diligent lately as a result... I need to get better at it, but I do view it as a losing game.
Most reliable used simple/basic vehicle
- Thread starter dja4260
- Start date
It's a messy, nasty, sloppy job. I HATE doing it.
Find yourself a 03-08 Corolla with the MT:
Technically, my sister did. But the car is mine until reconditioning is complete.
It is a 2005 CE with 140K miles. Paid $3K.
My sister lives in the city and needed an inexpensive car for weekend errands. Her plan is to keep the car for a few years and upgrade to something newer.
This Corolla was purchased from a friend of mine. It was their family's spare car for 3.5 years and was no longer needed. They only drove it for 15k miles for the duration of their ownership.
When my friend's family purchased this car in 2018, they had me bring all maintenance up-to-date. I also...
It is a 2005 CE with 140K miles. Paid $3K.
My sister lives in the city and needed an inexpensive car for weekend errands. Her plan is to keep the car for a few years and upgrade to something newer.
This Corolla was purchased from a friend of mine. It was their family's spare car for 3.5 years and was no longer needed. They only drove it for 15k miles for the duration of their ownership.
When my friend's family purchased this car in 2018, they had me bring all maintenance up-to-date. I also...
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So, it is your opinion that those of us that DO own FCA/Stellantis vehicles are stupid?
And yet, oddly, and amusingly, JD Power initial quality surveys do not have them far down the list (and often on top).
That said, they have been in various locations on various dependability study lists, depending on the year. RAM did reasonably well in 2021 for example:
And of course then we get contradictions, like this. BMW, most problems on the Euro list, top of the US Consumer Reports reliability list!
I've not owned any VW vehicles, so I can't comment from a personal perspective on the actual ownership experience, but my sister loves VW's and her and her husband (an MD, so I would hope he's not a moron, but Jesus, he bought a VW!? maybe he eats leaded paint chips and licks windows?) own two of them and seem happy with them. She got great service out of her Jetta that she owned when she lived in Toronto, it was not an expensive or troublesome car to own, hence them buying another.
I mean, objectively, you are in fact "hating", you've so far implied that people that have bought these marques are intellectually deficient, and have stated now, confidently, that those of us that own these products must like working on this "trash". Yet you admit to never owning one, so this isn't actually from experience. How much time do you think I spend wrenching on my SRT or our RAM 1500? Just put a figure on it, I'm curious.
No, that's old boat ownership.
You seem to use "Jeep" broadly and I'd argue, almost as a pejorative, as if the entire marque is a monolith with a universal (negative) ownership experience, regardless of model.
There have been some "not so great" Jeep models, but this is the case for any brand. The Wrangler, given what people often use them for, is likely what you are thinking of as "Jeep", which is the one people mod and take offroad.
Good luck finding anything clean for under 4K unless you find a 1-off kind of deal.
Yes, the OP has a good stable job, so I'd look at cost per year, if the local car market seems to over value the bottom end. A $5-6k well maintained car that probably needs nothing but fuel and an oil change for a couple years, is better than a $3-4k beater with little maintenance and problems building up, especially if you aren't fixing the little stuff yourself.
I do a little spread sheet with estimated costs per year, mpg and fuel cost(biggest expense of all for me, probably least for OP), with depreciation to zero at 20 years, and a made up equation to estimate increasing maintenance as the vehicle approaches 20 year old.
A new cheap simple car usually isn't too much more expensive to run per year, for 20 years, than a 10 year old car for 10 more years, if you don't count the time-value of your money, which in the past wasn't much, but I guess now interest rates are bit higher.
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No its not hating. I don't hate them or like them or personally care. You clearly do. I just see a problem and call it out. Own what you want I dont really care but objectively VW and Chrysler built cars are trash. Now if anything I actually hate that fact bevause the American in me wants to like and buy American cars. I just cant bring myself to spend money on something that isn't good.So, it is your opinion that those of us that DO own FCA/Stellantis vehicles are stupid?
And yet, oddly, and amusingly, JD Power initial quality surveys do not have them far down the list (and often on top).
That said, they have been in various locations on various dependability study lists, depending on the year. RAM did reasonably well in 2021 for example:
View attachment 287300
And of course then we get contradictions, like this. BMW, most problems on the Euro list, top of the US Consumer Reports reliability list!
View attachment 287301
View attachment 287302
I've not owned any VW vehicles, so I can't comment from a personal perspective on the actual ownership experience, but my sister loves VW's and her and her husband (an MD, so I would hope he's not a moron, but Jesus, he bought a VW!? maybe he eats leaded paint chips and licks windows?) own two of them and seem happy with them. She got great service out of her Jetta that she owned when she lived in Toronto, it was not an expensive or troublesome car to own, hence them buying another.
I mean, objectively, you are in fact "hating", you've so far implied that people that have bought these marques are intellectually deficient, and have stated now, confidently, that those of us that own these products must like working on this "trash". Yet you admit to never owning one, so this isn't actually from experience. How much time do you think I spend wrenching on my SRT or our RAM 1500? Just put a figure on it, I'm curious.
No, that's old boat ownership.
You seem to use "Jeep" broadly and I'd argue, almost as a pejorative, as if the entire marque is a monolith with a universal (negative) ownership experience, regardless of model.
There have been some "not so great" Jeep models, but this is the case for any brand. The Wrangler, given what people often use them for, is likely what you are thinking of as "Jeep", which is the one people mod and take offroad.
If I hate anything its that I am stuck buying Japanese made vehicles bevause there are ZERO good American car companies. There are cars I want to like but just can't. I want to like the Jeep Wrangler but I am against spending the kind of money it takes just to keep one on the road. I want to like the Dodge Challenger but that much money for a car that drives like a tranquilized pig doesn't sit right with me. I wish the Chevy Equinox wasn't the worst vehicle I have ever driven because they look decent and dont cost much but they are bad in just about everyday a vehicle can be bad.
I will add I love BMW's but they are problem prone and expensive to fix so I would tell anyone not to get a used one or use it one as a daily. Unless you plan on working on it constantly. Is that me hating on BMW's no absolutely not. My next project car here in the next couple of years is going to be an e46, but I accept that all it can and will be is a project and a toy. Think I am hating if you want but I'm not.
I really doubt anybody from your area is looking for any car much over 10 years old due to rust. Fortunately where I live rust isn’t a problem. These older 4 door GMs were probably Granny and Grandpa cars here in the South. Lots of life left. Even when they were new, young folks did buy them.
wemay
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Some others to consider IMO:
Hyundai Accent
Kia Rio
Hyundai Accent
Kia Rio
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Naw, I just dislike hearing stereotypes and claims about "trash" by somebody who has never owned what he's categorizing, and then takes it even further by indicating that people that buy these vehicles are glue sniffing half-wits.
What problem? Calling what out? By your own admission, you've never even owned an FCA product, so what problem is being addressed?
There's that "trash" insult again, this time dressed-up in a passive-aggressive delivery! I mean, you clearly care enough to write three paragraphs defending your (tenuous) position
You also claim to be intelligent, yet seem oblivious as to why somebody might take exception to your wholesale categorization of an entire company as "trash".So, how do you explain the ownership experiences of the rest of us?
And yet there are many Wrangler owners on this forum. Yes, when you mod them and take them offroad a lot, they can be more expensive to maintain, but that's the case for anything used in that manner. And of course, as I already mentioned, "Wrangler" isn't Jeep, Jeep makes the Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Grand Cherokee L and Wagoneer.
I owned an SRT Charger and it definitely didn't drive like a "tranquilized pig". It drove a bit bigger than my E39 M5, but was still a fun and comfortable car that handled well enough for its size (which was considerable). We also owned an '06 R/T (my wife's car), that I flashed the SRT shift programming onto. It was a trouble-free car and one of her favourites that we've owned.
I've never owned an Equinox, so I can't comment on the first-hand ownership experience there, but again, there are owners (who I assume don't sniff gas behind he wood shed) on this forum that could share their experience with the vehicle, good and bad.
But BMW tops your coveted Consumer Reports reliability survey! How do you explain that paradox?
I bought a used E39 M5 and used it as a daily for about 5 or 6 years. Surprisingly, I was NOT working on it constantly. When it did need repairs, which was infrequent, they were inexpensive and relatively easy to do for the most part.
Now, it was not a completely painless ownership experience. They have a self-adjusting mechanism on the clutch that's supposed to keep the pedal in the same location as the clutch wears, and these stick, causing clutch engagement issues. So at ~93000 miles I had the clutch replaced at the dealership, as I was driving the car down to North Carolina shortly and didn't have time to sort out the replacement myself.
Four years later, the car developed a drive line clunk, which was a worn joint in the rear section of the driveshaft (car has a 2-piece shaft with a carrier bearing). Well, BMW uses CV's instead of U-joints, so you can't just replace the worn joint, you have to buy a new shaft, which was quite expensive and was what prompted my trading of the car, in 2015, on a brand new 2014 SRT-8 Charger, which, despite a good (but brief) ownership experience with the Charger, I still regret to this day, because I was extremely fond of the M5.
Now, would I recommend somebody looking for a simple/basic vehicle at less than $4K to shop BMW? No. They'd likely end up buying some clapped-out nightmare at that price point, but that's the sort of nuance that "everything I don't like is trash" doesn't bring to the conversation.
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My 2015 Honda Fit has been extremely reliable. Lots of room inside.
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Youre misin
Toyota makes fantastic vehicles some of the very best you can buy but I dont like them they aren't trash though. Liking or not liking is irrelevant thats not the discussion here. Its about what makes sense to buy given your needs/wants. Look if you like Chrysler products and are willing to deal with their issues go for it. Doesn't mean they aren't trash again one of my top favorite car makers makes over priced trash. I can just admit that without it bothering me. Thats the difference one man's trash is another man's treasure.
Again it sucks that American car companies make horrifically bad cars. They aren't fun to drive (there are exceptions but as a rule) they dont look good (rare exceptions here but have you seen Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers of the last 2 decades that style died for a reason best to leave it dead), and they are horribly unreliable. I don't like it but that doesn't make it any more or less true.
I'll let you in on something I have a huge advantage over you in this as far as objectivity. I am autistic so I tend to see things for how they are not through rose colored glasses so to speak. Again buy what you want you like it for your reasons but that doesn't make it good. I like a lot of absolutely trash vehicles. The AMC Pacer is horrible just garbage, but I like them. Old VW Micro Busses the epitome of Euro trash garbage but I like them. Catfish Camaros are so ugly and so unapologetically terrible that I like them. All those vehicles are objectively awful and I'll never argue the other way but I love them. Oh Austin Minis the true Minis unsafe, underpowered, failure prone, death traps. If there was ever a trash tier car that would be it. I LOVE them and want one so bad but I cant justify getting one. I just dont have enough masochism in me to accept the pain of having these vehicles.
So dont think I dont understand liking trash cars I do, but dont delude yourself into thinking it isnt terrible just because you like it.
Naw, I just dislike hearing stereotypes and claims about "trash" by somebody who has never owned what he's categorizing, and then takes it even further by indicating that people that buy these vehicles are glue sniffing half-wits.
What problem? Calling what out? By your own admission, you've never even owned an FCA product, so what problem is being addressed?
There's that "trash" insult again, this time dressed-up in a passive-aggressive delivery! I mean, you clearly care enough to write three paragraphs defending your (tenuous) position
So, how do you explain the ownership experiences of the rest of us?
And yet there are many Wrangler owners on this forum. Yes, when you mod them and take them offroad a lot, they can be more expensive to maintain, but that's the case for anything used in that manner. And of course, as I already mentioned, "Wrangler" isn't Jeep, Jeep makes the Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Grand Cherokee L and Wagoneer.
I owned an SRT Charger and it definitely didn't drive like a "tranquilized pig". It drove a bit bigger than my E39 M5, but was still a fun and comfortable car that handled well enough for its size (which was considerable). We also owned an '06 R/T (my wife's car), that I flashed the SRT shift programming onto. It was a trouble-free car and one of her favourites that we've owned.
I've never owned an Equinox, so I can't comment on the first-hand ownership experience there, but again, there are owners (who I assume don't sniff gas behind he wood shed) on this forum that could share their experience with the vehicle, good and bad.
But BMW tops your coveted Consumer Reports reliability survey! How do you explain that paradox?
I bought a used E39 M5 and used it as a daily for about 5 or 6 years. Surprisingly, I was NOT working on it constantly. When it did need repairs, which was infrequent, they were inexpensive and relatively easy to do for the most part.
Now, it was not a completely painless ownership experience. They have a self-adjusting mechanism on the clutch that's supposed to keep the pedal in the same location as the clutch wears, and these stick, causing clutch engagement issues. So at ~93000 miles I had the clutch replaced at the dealership, as I was driving the car down to North Carolina shortly and didn't have time to sort out the replacement myself.
Four years later, the car developed a drive line clunk, which was a worn joint in the rear section of the driveshaft (car has a 2-piece shaft with a carrier bearing). Well, BMW uses CV's instead of U-joints, so you can't just replace the worn joint, you have to buy a new shaft, which was quite expensive and was what prompted my trading of the car, in 2015, on a brand new 2014 SRT-8 Charger, which, despite a good (but brief) ownership experience with the Charger, I still regret to this day, because I was extremely fond of the M5.
Now, would I recommend somebody looking for a simple/basic vehicle at less than $4K to shop BMW? No. They'd likely end up buying some clapped-out nightmare at that price point, but that's the sort of nuance that "everything I don't like is trash" doesn't bring to the conversation.
You're misinterpreting things. There are cars that I like that are trash. BMWs are terrible in most ways. Plagued with electrical problems, expensive to upkeep, a list of known problems a good deal of them major flaws. They are trash. I won't fight anyone on that but I like them.Naw, I just dislike hearing stereotypes and claims about "trash" by somebody who has never owned what he's categorizing, and then takes it even further by indicating that people that buy these vehicles are glue sniffing half-wits.
What problem? Calling what out? By your own admission, you've never even owned an FCA product, so what problem is being addressed?
There's that "trash" insult again, this time dressed-up in a passive-aggressive delivery! I mean, you clearly care enough to write three paragraphs defending your (tenuous) position
So, how do you explain the ownership experiences of the rest of us?
And yet there are many Wrangler owners on this forum. Yes, when you mod them and take them offroad a lot, they can be more expensive to maintain, but that's the case for anything used in that manner. And of course, as I already mentioned, "Wrangler" isn't Jeep, Jeep makes the Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Grand Cherokee L and Wagoneer.
I owned an SRT Charger and it definitely didn't drive like a "tranquilized pig". It drove a bit bigger than my E39 M5, but was still a fun and comfortable car that handled well enough for its size (which was considerable). We also owned an '06 R/T (my wife's car), that I flashed the SRT shift programming onto. It was a trouble-free car and one of her favourites that we've owned.
I've never owned an Equinox, so I can't comment on the first-hand ownership experience there, but again, there are owners (who I assume don't sniff gas behind he wood shed) on this forum that could share their experience with the vehicle, good and bad.
But BMW tops your coveted Consumer Reports reliability survey! How do you explain that paradox?
I bought a used E39 M5 and used it as a daily for about 5 or 6 years. Surprisingly, I was NOT working on it constantly. When it did need repairs, which was infrequent, they were inexpensive and relatively easy to do for the most part.
Now, it was not a completely painless ownership experience. They have a self-adjusting mechanism on the clutch that's supposed to keep the pedal in the same location as the clutch wears, and these stick, causing clutch engagement issues. So at ~93000 miles I had the clutch replaced at the dealership, as I was driving the car down to North Carolina shortly and didn't have time to sort out the replacement myself.
Four years later, the car developed a drive line clunk, which was a worn joint in the rear section of the driveshaft (car has a 2-piece shaft with a carrier bearing). Well, BMW uses CV's instead of U-joints, so you can't just replace the worn joint, you have to buy a new shaft, which was quite expensive and was what prompted my trading of the car, in 2015, on a brand new 2014 SRT-8 Charger, which, despite a good (but brief) ownership experience with the Charger, I still regret to this day, because I was extremely fond of the M5.
Now, would I recommend somebody looking for a simple/basic vehicle at less than $4K to shop BMW? No. They'd likely end up buying some clapped-out nightmare at that price point, but that's the sort of nuance that "everything I don't like is trash" doesn't bring to the conversation.
Toyota makes fantastic vehicles some of the very best you can buy but I dont like them they aren't trash though. Liking or not liking is irrelevant thats not the discussion here. Its about what makes sense to buy given your needs/wants. Look if you like Chrysler products and are willing to deal with their issues go for it. Doesn't mean they aren't trash again one of my top favorite car makers makes over priced trash. I can just admit that without it bothering me. Thats the difference one man's trash is another man's treasure.
Again it sucks that American car companies make horrifically bad cars. They aren't fun to drive (there are exceptions but as a rule) they dont look good (rare exceptions here but have you seen Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers of the last 2 decades that style died for a reason best to leave it dead), and they are horribly unreliable. I don't like it but that doesn't make it any more or less true.
I'll let you in on something I have a huge advantage over you in this as far as objectivity. I am autistic so I tend to see things for how they are not through rose colored glasses so to speak. Again buy what you want you like it for your reasons but that doesn't make it good. I like a lot of absolutely trash vehicles. The AMC Pacer is horrible just garbage, but I like them. Old VW Micro Busses the epitome of Euro trash garbage but I like them. Catfish Camaros are so ugly and so unapologetically terrible that I like them. All those vehicles are objectively awful and I'll never argue the other way but I love them. Oh Austin Minis the true Minis unsafe, underpowered, failure prone, death traps. If there was ever a trash tier car that would be it. I LOVE them and want one so bad but I cant justify getting one. I just dont have enough masochism in me to accept the pain of having these vehicles.
So dont think I dont understand liking trash cars I do, but dont delude yourself into thinking it isnt terrible just because you like it.
Yeah 
, too bad they don't make Fits anymore. They were a great little reliable beater. I don't know, Honda got their head screwed on backwards in the past decade or so. Had fantastic tranny's, then switched to CVT's, then switched to a German 10 speed, then back to the CVT's. Then their engines....GDI's thinning out oil to the point of throwing rods, the Pilot with that stupid ECM mode ( where it cut off cylinders to save gas) All it did was burn out the Cats. Honda needa a check up from the neck up ! 
, too bad they don't make Fits anymore. They were a great little reliable beater. I don't know, Honda got their head screwed on backwards in the past decade or so. Had fantastic tranny's, then switched to CVT's, then switched to a German 10 speed, then back to the CVT's. Then their engines....GDI's thinning out oil to the point of throwing rods, the Pilot with that stupid ECM mode ( where it cut off cylinders to save gas) All it did was burn out the Cats. Honda needa a check up from the neck up !
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I don't think I'm misinterpreting anything. I think you are struggling with word selection, using "trash" as a catch-all label for cars, that, it's your belief, are trouble-prone and then ignoring evidence to the contrary, and the fact that this conversation is necessarily more complex, in order to protect that opinion.
You didn't answer my question: How can BMW be simultaneously, as you put it "expensive to upkeep, major flaws, trash", and the top of the Consumer Reports brand rank:
Toyota has had frames rotting in half that have had to be replaced with a massive recall. They had huge issues with their 8spd transmission programming, they manufactured several engines without adequate oil return holes in the pistons that resulted in them sludging up to the point of failure. The current Tundra has a major issue with engines failing.
EVERY brand has issues. That's the point I'm trying to get you to see. It's not as simple as some mouth-breathing "everything that isn't Asian is trash" stereotype.
You keep saying this, but then are unable to answer my question as to what those issues may be. I've had good experience, generally, with FCA/Stellantis products, that's my share, you've had zero experience, but feel compelled to call the brand "trash". My experience is mirrored by many other members of this board. Some people have had poor experiences, they are just as valid. You have zero experience, that is not equally valid.
You keep using that word like it's an appropriate label to be used in civil conversation, it's not.
This again sounds like a whole lot of subjective opinion being expressed as fact, and you are interchanging things like aesthetics and body lines with reliability at will, making this meaningless word salad.
Someone who is truly objective would understand that opining with authority on something they have no experience with carries little weight. Particularly when the studies they cite, like the CR reliability study, completely contradicts these firm "opinions as facts". The conflation of subjective and material properties, broad-brushed with "reliability" makes them doubly useless.
Bringing up 50 year old vehicles aides your argument how? Where does the AMC Pacer or VW Micro Bus feature in the reliability studies you reference? You know, the ones where BMW ranks highly?
You've taken me off on a detour into the land of irrelevance and are now doing Jazz Hands trying to explain how this somehow validates your claims. It doesn't. That the original Autin Mini was unsafe is no more relevant to this discussion than the Nissan Sentra, Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla also being horribly unsafe 40-50 years ago.
Dressing up opinion as fact and then presenting it without couth or tact does not a valid argument make.
Civic sedan. Cheap parts, enjoyable to drive, manual transmission, legendary engine.
Chorty's yard truck !!! Got chains on it for the winter !!!!!!
Lots of misconceptions here about what's reliable and what isn't.
A BMW, Benz or VW with good service history is going to be a better bet than a Toy or Honda with no service history at all.
I've owned BMWs, Benzes and a VW as well as a number of Hondas, a Datsun (280Z 2+2) a Toy and a couple of Fords. Most were good and reliable cars.
What I'm trying to get at is that in a cheap used car, good service records matter far more than make or model.
An old BMW, Benz or VW with good service records is a better bet than a Honda or Toy with none.
A BMW, Benz or VW with good service history is going to be a better bet than a Toy or Honda with no service history at all.
I've owned BMWs, Benzes and a VW as well as a number of Hondas, a Datsun (280Z 2+2) a Toy and a couple of Fords. Most were good and reliable cars.
What I'm trying to get at is that in a cheap used car, good service records matter far more than make or model.
An old BMW, Benz or VW with good service records is a better bet than a Honda or Toy with none.
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There is opinion and there is fact in it. Now sure some models are terrible from good brands. Terrible brands sometimes make good models of vehicles. There is a difference and important distinction. Honda has made some absolute trash in their history, Toyota has made some horrific vehicles but those are rare. Jeep, Dodge, VW, and Fiat have slipped up and made some gems, but those are rare.
You will find very little data and much less anecdotal experience that disagrees. Now again do not hear what I am not saying BMW's are expensive to upkeep that is the truth of the matter. That's a huge issue and puts them in that trash tier category for me, but that doesnt mean they break all the time. You like most hear what you want sometimes not what im saying. My words mean what I am saying there is no reading into them.
Trash vehicles are ones that cost too much time or money to upkeep, or that don't suit their purpose well. What I mean buy that is if a car is supposed to be fun to drive but isn't. Thats an issue that puts it in trash tier because it doesn't do what it was meant to do. If a cheap commuter car isn't fun to drive that's fine it isnt supposed to be. If a model in a particular category costs far more to upkeep than its comprable comperitors that puts it in trash tier. Imagine a Lexus versus a BMW the Lexus is far less costly to maintain. I'll Give you that so you know how I am using the word. As that is a subjective use of a word being used for objective measurements.