Most important tire performance parameter?

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Originally Posted by geeman789
Not sure anybody thinks 24*F is COLD. Had he done those tests at 0*F or colder, the results would likely have been much better for the winter set up. Plus, the summer tires ( Bridgestone RE71R's ) are a super aggressive, super soft max performance / auto-x tire with minimal tread pattern, tread depth and zero sipes. Compared to the winter tire with heavily siped and generally small, unstable tread blocks, the summer tire SHOULD brake better, as it will be a much more stable platform.

Not a great test, IMO.

Here is an RE-71R ...

[Linked Image]




I had numerous performance summer tires, from Continental Sprotcontact, Potenza ER300 etc. to Michelin PSS. They are awful compared to dedicated snow tire once temperature goes below freezing point.
 
Living in the SE US in order of importance from High to Low: Wet grip, Dry grip, Wear/Cost*, and then Noise.

For me nothing shakes my confidence more than driving on tires which have mediocre wet performance.


*I'll pay a little more for better wear.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Living in the SE US in order of importance from High to Low: Wet grip, Dry grip, Wear/Cost*, and then Noise.

For me nothing shakes my confidence more than driving on tires which have mediocre wet performance.


*I'll pay a little more for better wear.

I will never forget Kumho Ecsta LX or whatever. Those tires when you break in wet behaved like someone spilled oil in front of tires.
 
I remember reading that summer tires have hydrophobic tread compounds and hardcore winter tires have hydrophilic tread compounds. I'd imagine a hydrophilic tire wouldn't be great on wet roads because it wouldn't evacuate liquid water all that well. Not sure how true that is, but IMO it seems to fit observations. Hardcore winter tires really suck on wet roads.

The tradeoff between winter and wet is what makes winter tire choice so difficult around PA. How much do you optimize for the most severe conditions (snow/ice) when that reduces grip in conditions that are FAR more common (wet roads)?
 
Originally Posted by d00df00d

The tradeoff between winter and wet is what makes winter tire choice so difficult around PA. How much do you optimize for the most severe conditions (snow/ice) when that reduces grip in conditions that are FAR more common (wet roads)?


Well, if you think you have it bad, imagine living in the PNW. 95% of the time, winter means driving in cold rain. Yet, that other 5%.... If you ski or have to drive over the passes, that means anywhere from groomed snowy roads to sheets of ice, and everything in between. What is more likely to have your car upside down? Probably the ice, so on the one hand it makes sense to use a tire that performs well on it. Problem is, I've had a couple of emergency stops in the rain that made me seriously reconsider my use of a studless snow tire. No real easy answers with the weather around here, but I've gone from a studless winter to the Vredestein Quatrac Pro for a winter tire.
 
Originally Posted by d00df00d
I remember reading that summer tires have hydrophobic tread compounds and hardcore winter tires have hydrophilic tread compounds. I'd imagine a hydrophilic tire wouldn't be great on wet roads because it wouldn't evacuate liquid water all that well. Not sure how true that is, but IMO it seems to fit observations. Hardcore winter tires really suck on wet roads.

The tradeoff between winter and wet is what makes winter tire choice so difficult around PA. How much do you optimize for the most severe conditions (snow/ice) when that reduces grip in conditions that are FAR more common (wet roads)?

There are winter tires that are good in wet too. Michelin X-ice are no worse in wet than all season tires are. I cannot say that my Bridgestone Driveguard on Toyota are any better in wet than X-Ice2.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
There are winter tires that are good in wet too. Michelin X-ice are no worse in wet than all season tires are.

Glad to hear you endorse the X-Ice for wet performance. I've heard the same from a friend whose opinion I trust.

Still not as good as some winter tires in the worst winter conditions, nor as good as some all-seasons in the rain, which was basically my point. But I'm getting the impression that if there's a reasonable compromise to be made, the X-Ice is about as reasonable as it gets -- the other option being a performance winter tire.
 
I prefer winter performance tires (Continental TS810, not available in the USA anymore, Dunlop Winter Sport 3D or 4D) to studless (Xi3) but one cannot have what is not available.
Viking 7 feels a little better in wet than Xi3 but that may be difference in feeling between old and new.

KrzyÅ›
 
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by edyvw
There are winter tires that are good in wet too. Michelin X-ice are no worse in wet than all season tires are.

Glad to hear you endorse the X-Ice for wet performance. I've heard the same from a friend whose opinion I trust.

Still not as good as some winter tires in the worst winter conditions, nor as good as some all-seasons in the rain, which was basically my point. But I'm getting the impression that if there's a reasonable compromise to be made, the X-Ice is about as reasonable as it gets -- the other option being a performance winter tire.

I found them extremely competent in snow. I drive twice a week to ski here in the Rockies. Trust me they have seen everything!
They are more capable than comparable Bridgestone DM-V2. In deep snow I would give half star more to DM-V2, but X-Ice2 (this is SUV model I am talking, X-ice 3 should be better in ice) is far ahead in ice than DM-V2. Also, in dry it behaves like all season tire. I lived briefly in Pittsburgh, and my choice would be x-ice hands down. Would not even think about it.
 
my main concern with tires is wet performance. the way the roads are paved nowadays, there's usually some standing water. as far as dry performance, a bald tire would probably be ok, but any water, and it's deadly. so wet performance and tread wear are my main concerns
 
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