More road rage idiots

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Well, you can do the experiment if you want. Drive like a dangerous jerk on the road, and see what happens...
I tend to drive and park politely and no one gets mad at me, and if for some reason I decide to be an ashhole while driving and a cyclist kicks off my mirror I'm not going going to try to kill the guy... Its just a car... Probably I would've deserved it, as not many cyclists are out there trying to start fights with people in cars.

I just ride my pedal bike on the road and have never had someone put me at risk on purpose. I have had to dodge a few doors, but I pay attention and just tell whoever to watch it next time, as no one has looked in their mirror and saw me and then opened the door... But I guess if they did, I might take it out on their parked car if the situation was favorable for it.


I don't drive like a dangerous jerk. I use my signals, keep right except to pass, let people merge, that sort of thing...so, no, no one has ever tried to kick my car or bash a mirror.

But if you continue to think that bashing mirrors, or attempting to cause damage to someone's car, because they "deserve it" is justified...

Then, dude, YOU'RE THE ROAD RAGER.

You're the one who justifies escalating in response to the actions of the other driver. You're the one that takes discourtesy, or a mistake, and turns it into criminal action. You don't ever have the right to damage other people's property just because you're angry, no matter what bizarre rationalization you present here.

What's next for you? Don't like the neighbor's porch light, so you shoot it out? I mean, it's only property damage, and they deserved it for being such a jerk. Don't like your wife's cooking? Smash her phone, she'll learn. She deserved it, right? Her new iphone 7 costs about what car mirro does these days, and you have to correct her, don't you?

It's clear that you believe that you were put on this earth to correct people. To judge them.

You're advocating criminal behaviour that escalates road rage, and will get a lot more people killed.

Please give it up.

If you think turning a traffic mistake (and you really are in no position to prove it is otherwise in most cases, well, most of us are in no position to judge others' intentions when they're in a car, but it's clear that you think you are) into criminal property damage is justified, then why not agree that turning criminal property damage into personal injury is OK? You go one rung up the ladder, and the guy whose car you damaged goes one rung up. He's just going to correct your behaviour, that's all. You go around "correcting" other people by smashing their stuff and other people might choose to act like you and smash your stuff to correct you. Except that, in traffic, your stuff is surrounded by a fragile pink body.

It takes the bigger person to shrug of the inconsiderate, rude, or inattentive actions of others. Your advocacy of escalation and criminal action shows that you're definitely not the bigger person, and you're a menace to others on the road.

Keep it up, keep kicking cars, keep bashing mirrors, keep taking your childish anger out on other people's property, and one day, soon, you may get a retaliatory response. But you'll be on a motorcycle, with no chance of winning the conflict, and a competent driver will wield the weapon that is his car, and kill you.

And on BITOG, we will all discuss who was at fault, while you'll be dead.

Please be the bigger person. Someone offends you, disengage. Leave. Don't escalate.

Assume and extrapolate much?
Yes, everyday I ride my motorbike(which I don't have) swearing at people and trying to kick their car while riding with no exit plan... And then I smash my wife's stuff for burning my dinner, kick the dog, beat my kids, while swearing at my neighbors for looking at me wrong...
Seems like I've provoked you into a forum righteousness rager, showing the danger of engaging with someone you have offended in some way but you're not sure how...
Anyways, I guess I haven't explained my point of view very well, and I won't be risking my life or anyone else's, to damage someones property.

 

[Mr Nice]

Simply keep your cool and let the other person drive off and away from you.

 

[DBMaster]

As I learned from my son while he was in his driver training, "Do not engage."

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Well, you can do the experiment if you want. Drive like a dangerous jerk on the road, and see what happens...
I tend to drive and park politely and no one gets mad at me, and if for some reason I decide to be an ashhole while driving and a cyclist kicks off my mirror I'm not going going to try to kill the guy... Its just a car... Probably I would've deserved it, as not many cyclists are out there trying to start fights with people in cars.

I just ride my pedal bike on the road and have never had someone put me at risk on purpose. I have had to dodge a few doors, but I pay attention and just tell whoever to watch it next time, as no one has looked in their mirror and saw me and then opened the door... But I guess if they did, I might take it out on their parked car if the situation was favorable for it.


I don't drive like a dangerous jerk. I use my signals, keep right except to pass, let people merge, that sort of thing...so, no, no one has ever tried to kick my car or bash a mirror.

But if you continue to think that bashing mirrors, or attempting to cause damage to someone's car, because they "deserve it" is justified...

Then, dude, YOU'RE THE ROAD RAGER.

You're the one who justifies escalating in response to the actions of the other driver. You're the one that takes discourtesy, or a mistake, and turns it into criminal action. You don't ever have the right to damage other people's property just because you're angry, no matter what bizarre rationalization you present here.

What's next for you? Don't like the neighbor's porch light, so you shoot it out? I mean, it's only property damage, and they deserved it for being such a jerk. Don't like your wife's cooking? Smash her phone, she'll learn. She deserved it, right? Her new iphone 7 costs about what car mirro does these days, and you have to correct her, don't you?

It's clear that you believe that you were put on this earth to correct people. To judge them.

You're advocating criminal behaviour that escalates road rage, and will get a lot more people killed.

Please give it up.

If you think turning a traffic mistake (and you really are in no position to prove it is otherwise in most cases, well, most of us are in no position to judge others' intentions when they're in a car, but it's clear that you think you are) into criminal property damage is justified, then why not agree that turning criminal property damage into personal injury is OK? You go one rung up the ladder, and the guy whose car you damaged goes one rung up. He's just going to correct your behaviour, that's all. You go around "correcting" other people by smashing their stuff and other people might choose to act like you and smash your stuff to correct you. Except that, in traffic, your stuff is surrounded by a fragile pink body.

It takes the bigger person to shrug of the inconsiderate, rude, or inattentive actions of others. Your advocacy of escalation and criminal action shows that you're definitely not the bigger person, and you're a menace to others on the road.

Keep it up, keep kicking cars, keep bashing mirrors, keep taking your childish anger out on other people's property, and one day, soon, you may get a retaliatory response. But you'll be on a motorcycle, with no chance of winning the conflict, and a competent driver will wield the weapon that is his car, and kill you.

And on BITOG, we will all discuss who was at fault, while you'll be dead.

Please be the bigger person. Someone offends you, disengage. Leave. Don't escalate.


Unfortunately, this is the mindset of many people these days...they feel damaging one's property, or assaulting the people themself is justified if they are offended or angered...what has gone wrong with our society?

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Unfortunately, this is the mindset of many people these days...they feel damaging one's property, or assaulting the people themself is justified if they are offended or angered...what has gone wrong with our society?


The quest for the American Dream has left most of us overworked, stressed, and feeling like we are constantly inadequate in some way. Not everyone can release that tension in a healthy way. Expect many more such incidents as metro areas become more crowded and the U.S. continues to concentrate more wealth at the top, leaving the rest of us to fight for the crumbs.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: grampi
Unfortunately, this is the mindset of many people these days...they feel damaging one's property, or assaulting the people themself is justified if they are offended or angered...what has gone wrong with our society?


The quest for the American Dream has left most of us overworked, stressed, and feeling like we are constantly inadequate in some way. Not everyone can release that tension in a healthy way. Expect many more such incidents as metro areas become more crowded and the U.S. continues to concentrate more wealth at the top, leaving the rest of us to fight for the crumbs.


Perhaps.

I'll add that a really important factor is this: there are NO normal interpersonal, social cues when you're behind the wheel (or on you motorcycle). You wouldn't dream of stepping right in front of someone in line at the grocery store, but you see that behaviour all the time on the road.

If someone upsets you, there are non-verbal, and perhaps some verbal, cues that you are upset, and the person in question will respond, in any number of ways, maybe avoid, or apologize, most of the time. Often, the offender will look around at the crowd, to gauge public support/disapproval of their actions.

But that gauging, and avoidance, or apology, is impossible when people are wrapped in steel or a helmet.

So, absent the normal social cues that a person is misbehaving, people tend to misbehave, because there is no feedback/correction mechanism.

And, no, smashing mirrors, or other acts of violence, as advocated by some in this thread, do NOT count as normal social feedback. That violence is NOT justifiable, no matter how aggrieved one might be. That's childish anger, set free by the lack of social constraints. It would be sociopathy if done in public between people, but in traffic, it's simply unjustified violence.

Removing the social context: non-verbal communication, feedback, etc. simply makes the path to bad behaviour, or even violence, easier...

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: grampi
Unfortunately, this is the mindset of many people these days...they feel damaging one's property, or assaulting the people themself is justified if they are offended or angered...what has gone wrong with our society?


The quest for the American Dream has left most of us overworked, stressed, and feeling like we are constantly inadequate in some way. Not everyone can release that tension in a healthy way. Expect many more such incidents as metro areas become more crowded and the U.S. continues to concentrate more wealth at the top, leaving the rest of us to fight for the crumbs.


Perhaps.

I'll add that a really important factor is this: there are NO normal interpersonal, social cues when you're behind the wheel (or on you motorcycle). You wouldn't dream of stepping right in front of someone in line at the grocery store, but you see that behaviour all the time on the road.

If someone upsets you, there are non-verbal, and perhaps some verbal, cues that you are upset, and the person in question will respond, in any number of ways, maybe avoid, or apologize, most of the time. Often, the offender will look around at the crowd, to gauge public support/disapproval of their actions.

But that gauging, and avoidance, or apology, is impossible when people are wrapped in steel or a helmet.

So, absent the normal social cues that a person is misbehaving, people tend to misbehave, because there is no feedback/correction mechanism.

And, no, smashing mirrors, or other acts of violence, as advocated by some in this thread, do NOT count as normal social feedback. That violence is NOT justifiable, no matter how aggrieved one might be. That's childish anger, set free by the lack of social constraints. It would be sociopathy if done in public between people, but in traffic, it's simply unjustified violence.

Removing the social context: non-verbal communication, feedback, etc. simply makes the path to bad behaviour, or even violence, easier...


This is very good food for thought. There's a certain anonymity people feel in their vehicles (like some feel when posting online) that, as you said, diminishes or eliminates the normal immediate consequences. Thanks!

 

[aquariuscsm]

If I accidentally do a bonehead maneuver in traffic I'll always give a polite apologetic wave to let them know I had my head up my you know what and that I was in the wrong.

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
If I accidentally do a bonehead maneuver in traffic I'll always give a polite apologetic wave to let them know I had my head up my you know what and that I was in the wrong.


I could see that working in Corpus Christi. Compared to here, in the Dallas area, they are quite a bit more laid back and polite in Corpus. But, they are often SLOW there, too. After living there two years I had finally started to calm down. Then I moved back here and messed it all up.

 

[ndfergy]

Perhaps.

I'll add that a really important factor is this: there are NO normal interpersonal, social cues when you're behind the wheel (or on you motorcycle). You wouldn't dream of stepping right in front of someone in line at the grocery store, but you see that behaviour all the time on the road.

If someone upsets you, there are non-verbal, and perhaps some verbal, cues that you are upset, and the person in question will respond, in any number of ways, maybe avoid, or apologize, most of the time. Often, the offender will look around at the crowd, to gauge public support/disapproval of their actions.

But that gauging, and avoidance, or apology, is impossible when people are wrapped in steel or a helmet.

So, absent the normal social cues that a person is misbehaving, people tend to misbehave, because there is no feedback/correction mechanism.

And, no, smashing mirrors, or other acts of violence, as advocated by some in this thread, do NOT count as normal social feedback. That violence is NOT justifiable, no matter how aggrieved one might be. That's childish anger, set free by the lack of social constraints. It would be sociopathy if done in public between people, but in traffic, it's simply unjustified violence.

Removing the social context: non-verbal communication, feedback, etc. simply makes the path to bad behaviour, or even violence, easier...

Spot on!

Moving traffic with multiple escape options provides the driver the anonymity to break that social contract - who's to judge. When the driver is trapped in slower moving traffic interactions are more personal and confrontations more possible.

Power, King of the Castle, protecting ones place, I got here first, or whatever you want to call it, is another psychological issue that astounds me. How often have you witnessed drivers behind you close the gap to block drivers from merging in front of them? I don't get it. As long as the flow is not interrupted why would you care? It's not like he couldn't pass you anyway after the fact.

To the OP. I hope both drivers are dealt severely to the full extent of the law.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
As I learned from my son while he was in his driver training, "Do not engage."


Bingo. No traffic mistake is worth getting shot by some idiot.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
..... Per eye witnesses, the road rage games started way before the video was shot. I'd like to hear the car driver's lame excuse for trying to kill somebody. Little did he know he was on camera.


http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/state/california/article158292154.html

Can you let the cops in on the name and location of these eye witnesses so they can talk to them? They apparently have not, and are not jumping to the same conclusions you are.

In a small world dept., one of best pals from law school is a judge in San Luis Obispo. I find that hard to get my head around sometimes ....

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
..... Per eye witnesses, the road rage games started way before the video was shot. I'd like to hear the car driver's lame excuse for trying to kill somebody. Little did he know he was on camera.


http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/state/california/article158292154.html

Can you let the cops in on the name and location of these eye witnesses so they can talk to them? They apparently have not, and are not jumping to the same conclusions you are.

In a small world dept., one of best pals from law school is a judge in San Luis Obispo. I find that hard to get my head around sometimes ....


They have talked to the guy who recorded the video, so not sure what that eyewitness is telling the cops. I think the cops are reserved about releasing info at this point in time.

The cops answers to all those questions in that article are pretty neutral at this point - no conclusion one way or the other. I didn't see any info about them talking to the car driver and getting his side of the story. Cop did mention that the bike rider didn't necessarily commit a "hit & run" ... it depends on how this indecent all started.

The cop said he didn't know if the car crossed over into the carpool lane or not, but some videos on YouTube show the car just finishing crossing over the lane strips and moving into the carpool lane (which is illegal to do). And the guy that recorded the video should have seen that since he was obviously watching this unfold long enough to decide to get his cell phone out and start recording the incident.

 

[Win]

"Is the motorcyclist at fault?

That is the first thing you see on the video, but we don’t know if that was the first thing that happened, whether something was going on prior to that. CHP needs to know what happened to initiate the incident. There are times when one driver is a primary cause, but another may have contributed to it.

Does the car swerve on purpose to block the motorcyclist, or is that just a startle reaction?
We can’t theorize at this point whether that was intentional or reactionary. I could see it either way."

......

"Is the motorcyclist guilty of hit and run?
Not necessarily. A lot has to do with what his story is. ....."

That doesn't sound particularly neutral to me, but, the article says the officers words are paraphrased, so there is that variable.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Win
That doesn't sound particularly neutral to me, but, the article says the officers words are paraphrased, so there is that variable.


Sure it's "neutral" at this point, because the cop isn't saying the cyclist or motorist is the one at fault. They need more information on exactly how this all started and unfolded before putting blame on each participant.

 

[Win]

"Is the motorcyclist at fault?

That is the first thing you see on the video, but "

Yes, but, is generally not the position you want to be in.


"Is the motorcyclist guilty of hit and run?

Not necessarily. A lot has to do with ...."

Another, yes, but. Again, generally, not the position you want to be in.

If you read this in the newspaper, and you were the motorcyclist, would you turn yourself in? Why or why not?

 

[ZeeOSix]

In the very beginning of the video, you can see the car coming across the car pool lane divider lines and trying to pinch off the biker. Road rage games started a while before the guy started recording video - that's what the guy recording video has stated. I'm betting both the biker and car guy knew exactly where the other was by this point.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: ARCOg

If you are in So.NH, don't mess with a Silver Rogue with Heritage plates.



The more stuff I read from people in NH the less I want to cross the border. Its like a different country.

Everybody thinks they're a tough guy. That's the problem.




I have to agree that NH has terrible and agressive drivers. I used to think MA was the worst but in my recent road trip from NH>NJ the worst drivers were from NH both directions. I was surprised generally how decent drivers are otherwise.

Road rage is absolutely selfish by both parties. Careless disregard for everyone else who shares the road because you have the emotional control of a toddler.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
If I accidentally do a bonehead maneuver in traffic I'll always give a polite apologetic wave to let them know I had my head up my you know what and that I was in the wrong.


That's the way a normal person would react...most drivers these days are not normal...around here if someone does some bonehead maneuver, it's usually done on purpose, and even if it isn't, they will give you the finger as though you did something wrong just because you were in their way...many drivers feel no remorse for their idiotic actions, in fact many of them believe they are entitled to drive like idiots...

 

[MarcS]

Had a guy try to chase me down a couple weeks ago for misting him while he was tailgating...