More NAPA Gold info

[dommiel74]

I found this olllld post by Terry Dyson regarding oil filters:

". . . I was not impressed with K&N's new filter when it came out because it is heavy paper media and is efficient to only 98% at 35 microns,50% at 16 microns.So the amount of 10-20 microns particles trapped is not that impressive. . ."

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...=231#Post307300

NAPA Golds (1040) are 95% at 31um and 50% at 15um making it about as bad as the K&N.

 

[Roger]

The only certain thing in life is that things change, including opinions, not consistent great or poor performance of oil filter brands.

That post by Terry is 5 years old. Here is one just 1 year old: "...things change and for now K&N and even better Amsoil EaO are making enough of a difference in our test results that I recommend their use over the other FF filters."


K&N Oil Filters post - Oct '06

I wouldn't put too much pressure on the guy.

 

[dommiel74]

True, and the K/N's may have improved, but those numbers from NAPA/wix are current. If what he said 5 years ago about K/N not being too good is true then napa/wix need to do some serious catching up.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

My K&Ns are around $9 - $10
My Napa Golds are around $4.75 purchased online.

Why are you comparing a product that's half the cost?

 

[dommiel74]

Because according to what terry said NAPA/wix sucks.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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My K&Ns are around $9 - $10
My Napa Golds are around $4.75 purchased online.

Why are you comparing a product that's half the cost?

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That would be my take on it. Why would you pay premium prices for standard results

Wix's main feature, imo, is quality of construction. There are broad variances in performance beyond the spec's. There are "performance over the duration" issues that some may not be able to match.

If I'm focusing on fine filtration, I buy PureOne, M1, or Amsoil EaO. I'm not well versed on K&N

 

[TallPaul]

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Because according to what terry said NAPA/wix sucks.

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Not true. You can run Wix filters exclusively and I highly doubt it will make a practicable difference in the life of your engine compared to running a more expensive filter. In fact, probably get along just fine with Fram if doing normal OCIs.

Frankly, I think people get way too concerned about differences between oil filters. But hey, that's what the forum is for, so have at it. Such concern IMO is only warranted in a-typical situations, perhaps such as racing or having a $100K sports car.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

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Because according to what terry said NAPA/wix sucks.

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Will you please show us that terry said NAPA/wix sucks quote please????

 

[mrsilv04]

 

[dommiel74]

I was not impressed with K&N's new filter when it came out because it is heavy paper media and is efficient to only 98% at 35 microns,50% at 16 microns.So the amount of 10-20 microns particles trapped is not that impressive

OK so he didnt directly say wix/ng suck, but if you can use a bit of intelligence and compare wix to the old k/n you get:

K/N 98% at 35 microns, 50% at 16 microns

Wix/ng 95% at 31um, 50% at 15 um

These two filters are nearly identical. The k/n may have been improved since then, but the info for the wix/ng is current.

If the old k/n was not impressive with thoes numbers, why is fine for the wix/ng to have nearly the same efficiency?
Does having the wix logo magically make them better?

 

[SKUNKY]

Good question.. I've used Wix brand filters for years without any problems..what to do---what to do?

 

[dommiel74]

Quote:

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Good question.. I've used Wix brand filters for years without any problems..what to do---what to do?

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Like Tallpaul said, it probably wont make any difference in the end. Tons of people have used napa/wix and even frams and gone 200k or more miles.

 

[glenncof]

Quote:

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Wix's main feature, imo, is quality of construction. There are broad variances in performance beyond the spec's. There are "performance over the duration" issues that some may not be able to match.

If I'm focusing on fine filtration, I buy PureOne, M1, or Amsoil EaO.

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That's a good summary. Let's put it in context.

I have a 2005 that runs clean and well maintained at 32K. I also have a 1985 at 183K miles. Is 10um filtering important ?

It is to me on the first since it has been on MC FL-820s (PureONE like media). Not on the second since it's run 20 years with 30um so 10um has value only in theory, imo.

Also consider a typical high mileage vehicle (say 75K or 100K) that has had less than stellar maintenance. I would be concerned about 10um filtering due to holding capacity and would likely prefer 30um for 5-7K OCI. I might use a 10um filter for a short clean-up OCI, even then I would probably use a 30um one first.

So at a certain point in engine life, the value of 10um vs. 30um becomes debatable.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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So at a certain point in engine life, the value of 10um vs. 30um becomes debatable.

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Surely so ..but just to assure that we're talking the same language, the older engine typically never sees the same usage as it did in its early years. That is, what used to be a frequent flier is now a beater. Even if in good shape and offering substantial utility for its age, it's not used more than 6-9k a year. There's not much sense in an expensive filter anyway ..since you'll never get your money's worth out of it.

My daughter's Taurus gets el cheapo filters (ST-AA total grips). She's all short trip with occasional excursions. The car was bought used with 131k and now has 160k+. It's a 91. How much more does it owe her??

OTOH, if she owned it from new and never changed the usage profile (like my wife) and did 18k a year, I'd be putting an EaO on it. My wife has 128k on her jeep. We don't think we'll be buying another new car ...ever. She may buy a beater with 30something mpg if it gets too expensive to run the jeep for her 18k/year.

So, I'd say it depends more on what service the unit sees than it does what mileage it has.

 

[dommiel74]

I have a 02 sonoma that is very well maintained, but it has 121k miles on it. If I did my math right, I need to get another 6 million miles on it before I can afford another new truck.

I just put on my first napa gold filter, the first one out of the master pack I got online. Will these even protect my engine, or will I just erode it away by the time I get to 150k?

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't quite understand the question, ..but ..again..the choice in filter will probably not effect your longevity of your engine. It may alter the state of condition at the time of retirement. Engines are pretty much the same as people. The life span is mostly in the design. The difference is in how healthy we are when we expire.

 

[jazztrumpet216]

1) I really doubt that someone like Terry Dyson would appreciate you putting words in his mouth. How do you know he wasn't considering cost when he made that statement about K&N five years ago? I would be hesitant to infer that kind of opinion and pass it along as fact like you did when you said "Because according to what terry said NAPA/wix sucks."

2) I also doubt that Napa would put a product out there that would cause your engine to die in 30K miles. It sounds to me like you are on an agenda to change people's minds about Napa filters. Those types of agendas are rarely effective and usually only result in bitter feelings. Let people choose what they want, because you probably won't change their minds.

 

[dommiel74]

If I had an agenda against wix/ng I probably would not have bought 12 of them. Im trying to what filters are oem quality, what ones suck, and what ones are above average. I want numbers not anecdotal summaries. Contacting the manufacturer is useless because their customer service has little viable information.

Wix does actually post beta ratios, which I respect them for the honesty, but it is also a bane. wix's beta ratios really look bad compared to most other companies, like fram (TG), who claim 99% efficiency at 20um. You dont have to be a rocked scientist to realize that 99% at 20 um is alot better than 95% at 31um. But with all the fudging of numbers, lying, and other underhanded techniques used you need to be one to make sense of it all.

There is also a ton of opinions about filters- 30um is ok, you have to have 10um filter, only the expensive ones, only the cheap ones, oem, purolator, this one killed my engine, that one killed my motor.....on and on.

I guess I do pick on wix a bunch, but looking at their data and comparing it to the data on the box of "the leading national brand" wix appears terrible. Yet as bad as they look people love them. Why not use a purolator premium for 3 dollars less and get better filtration (90% vs 50% at 15um)? Im just trying to figure this all out, but with a gross lack of legitimate data its difficult.

 

[Greaser]

What does you UOA say?Mine says my Napa Gold filters are doing a GREAT job in my Jeeps!

 

[SKUNKY]

Were all to ANAL...a buddy of mine use to run Flagg filters(Made by Who Only Knows) in his HD($.79/filter)..had 150k when he sold it..Never had a problem...buy whatever let's you sleep at nite.............same with engine oil...your going to sell the vehicle before it's time anyway..use the wt.recomended and change it once and awhile..Were to ANAL...Sorry for the rant but this is why good people are leaving this site.........Joe