More "Fun" Oil....

Pennzoil motor oil
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Phishin

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I recently obtained 12 gallons of RLI to run in my new truck (8 gallons of 10w30 HDEO and 4 gallons of 0w30).

But Accord was feeling left out, so I order her something special.

Any guesses?? I plan to mix 1-->1.5 quarts of this oil into a total of 4.5 quarts per OC.


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Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30
I think you're right. Of course it might be the 0w50 flavor.
 
^^^^^ Yeah. It will mix nicely with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20.

A long time ago, when I first joined BITOG, there was a guy here who ran a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1R 0w50 and Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 in his cars. Yeah, they were high performance cars, and this is just going into a 4 cylinder Accord, but why not? You only live once.....
 
Originally Posted by Phishin
^^^^^ Yeah. It will mix nicely with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20.

A long time ago, when I first joined BITOG, there was a guy here who ran a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1R 0w50 and Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 in his cars. Yeah, they were high performance cars, and this is just going into a 4 cylinder Accord, but why not? You only live once.....


If I'm not mistaken, more modern vehicles with upstream and downstream O2 sensors recommend phosphorous levels below 1000 ppm. SN oils are supposed to have a max phosphorous level of 800 (and min level of 600ppm). A 50/50 mixture with SN oil would have a level about 1130 ppm. Prolonged use might prevent the emission system from lasting the mandated 100,000 miles. At the least, it could void the emission warranty.

Ray
 
RayCJ, phosphorus levels only matter if the engine is an oil user. Then it gets out and goes to the cats. Otherwise, if the engine uses very little oil, its all good to have higher P. I'd guess that would be if it uses less than 1 quart in 5,000 miles.

Originally Posted by Phishin
^^^^^ Yeah. It will mix nicely with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20. A long time ago, when I first joined BITOG, there was a guy here who ran a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1R 0w50 and Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 in his cars. Yeah, they were high performance cars, and this is just going into a 4 cylinder Accord, but why not? You only live once.....
One thing I realized, and please tell me if I'm wrong: They still run the seal compatibility tests on Racing oil, right? We have depended on the seal compatibilty lists in SN, dexos1, 229.5, etc., yet Racing oil like this Mobil 1 0w50 has no specs. Mobil 1 just says "use it for racing" without reported tests we can hang our hat on. I guess that's good enough. I mean, Mobil has to know this oil could go into almost any brand of race car and engine type (hot Rally hatchbacks, NASCAR, German engines, etc., you know).

Mobil 1 Racing oil (both 0w30 and 0w50) are nearly all-PAO oils when you look at the MSDS sheets for them. Sounds great.
....If you do want a Racing full-PAO 0w-50 oil that is also API SN officially certified (tested), Eneos Racing Street 0w-50 is the one. Amazon has it.
Their Eneos Racing Street 0w-20 is not all-PAO. It's all-Group3+ (like PurePlus) so it should be good. API SN there too. I use that full-strength in my hybrid since it has SN.

Also, mixing.... hmmm.... I assume there wouldn't be additive clash. I wouldn't use more than 20% of the sump as Mobil 1 Racing oil.
My suggestion would be to first do an oil change with 0w20 for the winter, then leave room in your sump for 1/2 quart of make-up oil half-way through your oil change interval to allow the Mobil 1 Racing oil additives to replace the depleted Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 (or whatever anybody uses as the base) addtives, and thicken the oil a tad for summer. .... Because it does appear, from the VOA, that Mobil 1 Racing oil has detergents like street oil, & certainly gobs of ZDDP & moly we like.
 
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Ray -- My Accord only burns about 0.5 quarts in 9k miles. Really, it's nothing. So I'm not worried about the Phos one bit.

I plan to add 1.5 quarts of Mobil 1 Racing 0w50 to 3 quarts of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20.

O_F_M: I'm not concerned with seals. Others have ran this oil (even straight) without issues. I've been running 30 weights in my Honda for awhile. So I'm not concerned with the thicker viscosity. There's people on here who run Mobil 1 0w40 in their Honda's without incident.

Eneos Racing Street 0w50 looks interesting. Maybe next time
 
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Originally Posted by Phishin
Ray -- My Accord only burns about 0.5 quarts in 9k miles. Really, it's nothing. So I'm not worried about the Phos one bit.

I plan to add 1.5 quarts of Mobil 1 Racing 0w50 to 3 quarts of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20.

O_F_M: I'm not concerned with seals. Others have ran this oil (even straight) without issues. I've been running 30 weights in my Honda for awhile. So I'm not concerned with the thicker viscosity. There's people on here who run Mobil 1 0w40 in their Honda's without incident.



10-4... I wasn't trying to be a kill-joy; just wanted to point out some possible pitfalls. It sounds like you have a handle on things.

Ray
 
Originally Posted by RayCJ

10-4... I wasn't trying to be a kill-joy; just wanted to point out some possible pitfalls. It sounds like you have a handle on things.

Ray


I know that. Thanks for the head's up though. I thought I was going to make a run on Valvoline MaxLife with the Torco additive....but this M1R oil is dying to be poured into my Honda. LOL!!

I just changed the oil a few week ago, but I'm already nearing 3K miles on this OCI. In 2 weeks, I'll be driving 3k miles over Thanksgiving. So probably sometime in December, I'll have a decision to make.
 
Originally Posted by Phishin
O_F_M: I'm not concerned with seals. Others have ran this oil (even straight) without issues. I've been running 30 weights in my Honda for awhile. So I'm not concerned with the thicker viscosity. There's people on here who run Mobil 1 0w40 in their Honda's without incident.
I was never concerned about the high viscosity. Should be fine. (Viscosity is usually only a problem when it thins too much.)
About the seal compatability tests, we see Mobil recommending this 0w50 (& 0w30 too) racing oil for about every kind of racing engine out there. Therefore, even without a full set of performance tests (including seal tests) in an SN, or dexos1, or 229.5, etc., we can trust Mobil as the adults in the room who have formulated this to run great.
It would be nice if Mobil would say "Passes all SN tests but don't use it on the street because it could foul your catalysts (too much P)." I don't see that statement from Mobil anywhere about it passing all the SN tests we like to have for street & racing oils alike. ..... Are we missing something here? Is this Racing oil OK for a normal OCI on the street? I think it is, based on seeing lots of calcium detergents. All-PAO ain't bad either. .... Conclusion: Probably fine for the street in an engine that doesn't burn oil to foul catalysts. All that moly is known to have benefits too.
 
I'm curious about the moly type with it being that high. Is it all tri-nuclear? MoDTC? An MoDTC and tri-nuclear blend? A tri-nuclear and organomoly blend?

I don't like that formula for a "racing" oil. I would want a lot less detergent, around just 300-400 ppm Ca (No Mg or Na, just enough to hold off some combustion by-products for the oil's extremely short OCI), short chained, secondary ZDDP at just 900-1100 ppm, some phosphate ester, and around that same amount of moly in an tri-nuclear / organomoly blend. It would have a TBN of 1.5-2.0, because a TBN of 10.0 is worthless in an engine that dumps the oil in less than 500 miles (or after each race) anyway. It would be a 10w30, 15w40, or 20w-50 because I can't think of a racing engine that runs sustained wide open throttle and high rpm at -40*F. No VII polymers. High HTHS. Low NOACK. Low ash. Let the base oil and anti-wear do what it needs to do for the application and get everything else out of the way.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I'm curious about the moly type with it being that high. Is it all tri-nuclear? MoDTC? An MoDTC and tri-nuclear blend? A tri-nuclear and organomoly blend?

I don't like that formula for a "racing" oil. I would want a lot less detergent, around just 300-400 ppm Ca (No Mg or Na, just enough to hold off some combustion by-products for the oil's extremely short OCI), short chained, secondary ZDDP at just 900-1100 ppm, some phosphate ester, and around that same amount of moly in an tri-nuclear / organomoly blend. It would have a TBN of 1.5-2.0, because a TBN of 10.0 is worthless in an engine that dumps the oil in less than 500 miles (or after each race) anyway. It would be a 10w30, 15w40, or 20w-50 because I can't think of a racing engine that runs sustained wide open throttle and high rpm at -40*F. No VII polymers. High HTHS. Low NOACK. Low ash. Let the base oil and anti-wear do what it needs to do for the application and get everything else out of the way.


I'm pretty sure all the moly is tri-nuclear. Anyone else have different evidence?

Why the concern with low ash oil in a "true racing oil"? What could a bit of detergency and buffering TBN hurt?

And it's unclear to me why a racing would need to be loaded with VII's and be classified as a 0w50?? But there must be a reason. Otherwise they wouldn't create such a spread.
 
Originally Posted by Phishin
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I'm curious about the moly type with it being that high. Is it all tri-nuclear? MoDTC? An MoDTC and tri-nuclear blend? A tri-nuclear and organomoly blend?

I don't like that formula for a "racing" oil. I would want a lot less detergent, around just 300-400 ppm Ca (No Mg or Na, just enough to hold off some combustion by-products for the oil's extremely short OCI), short chained, secondary ZDDP at just 900-1100 ppm, some phosphate ester, and around that same amount of moly in an tri-nuclear / organomoly blend. It would have a TBN of 1.5-2.0, because a TBN of 10.0 is worthless in an engine that dumps the oil in less than 500 miles (or after each race) anyway. It would be a 10w30, 15w40, or 20w50 because I can't think of a racing engine that runs sustained wide open throttle and high rpm at -40*F. No VII polymers. High HTHS. Low NOACK. Low ash. Let the base oil and anti-wear do what it needs to do for the application and get everything else out of the way.


I'm pretty sure all the moly is tri-nuclear. Anyone else have different evidence?

Why the concern with low ash oil in a "true racing oil"? What could a bit of detergency and buffering TBN hurt?

And it's unclear to me why a racing would need to be loaded with VII's and be classified as a 0w50?? But there must be a reason. Otherwise they wouldn't create such a spread.


I would expect it to all be tri-nuclear being Mobil 1. Some things aren't as they seem though.

With racing engines, they spend the majority of their lifes either at idle or wide open throttle. There's not much in between. The engines are also built with looser clearances including piston to wall clearances, ring gaps, and ring tension. Oil consumption into the chambers tend to be higher. They are also usually running on the edge of self-destruction. Because of this, I wouldn't want the risk of high ash deposits in the chambers. Also... why? The oil is going to be changed every 30-40 1/4 mile passes, every 250-500 laps/miles, or even after each race week. They're not daily commuting for one year or 10k mile OCIs so why pour the cost of high detergency into an oil that's not going to use it? That's how I'm looking at it. I could be wrong about the ash deposits though.

My only guess on the 0w30 and 0w50 is they are using the high shear rate of the VI polymers to try to cut down on friction.
 
RDY4WAR, since Mobil wants this to be used in about anything that's raced under the sun, seriously a universal racing oil if there ever was one, then they are concerned about endurance races and what a build-up of whatever deposits might happen in a lot of running at high speeds. Also, it almost appears as if they know some num-nut will use this as street oil, and they put in stuff to avoid problems for months.(??)

You can easily imagine the product development meetings going on at Exxon-Mobil as they decided on the formula for this: They want to use it everywhere, in everything, so it must have some properties to keep their reputation among enthusiasts. .... That makes it an all-PAO, high moly, high zddp, detergents, very protective formula.
 
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