Moly Sludge/Slug? Gary Allen

Pennzoil motor oil
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Phishin

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Okay, reading the 0w10 RP thread, I read part of the link that Gary Allen created regarding 0w10 in a Jeep 2.5L.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1630571

In that thread, he used AutoRX and shows a HUGE spike in Moly in his used oil analysis, when there should have been no Moly present. He talked about AutoRX knocking some Moly Sludge/Slug loose.

Anyone care to explain this? What is happening? Is Moly creating "crusties" or "aggregates" somewhere in the engine? Is this common or known or discussed elsewhere?

I thought Moly would stay soluable in the oil and only plate out under extreme pressure and heat. Why is creating problem?

Or is this Moly that Gary is seeing just plated out Moly that is slowly falling off engine internals?
 
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Man, that brings back memories.

Moly plates everything under heat and friction.
If you use a can of anything with MOS2 it will show up in later used oil analysis for quite some time.

He ran a quick run of Auto RX, which has esters in it that adhere/plate metals under heat and pressure. Those esters seem to have adhered/plated the metal better than Moly and therefore displaced the moly in that OCI.
Hence lower Moly numbers in that UOA.

If you have Moly sticking around from previous OCI's and you don't want it there Auto RX may be a good thing for trying to clean it out.
 
I cannot recommend Lubri moly - a colliodal suspension (milk) of solid moly particles (dirt/dust). One conservative treatment almost killed my FIT. Wrong kind of moly. Dont know if anyone sells the soluble and preferred Molydithiocarbamate or similar Particulate can agglomerate to be trapped by the filter or become entrained in head and pan varnish and sludge.
 
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
so everyone keep using lubromoly mos2 as i said many times that junk moly falls out eventually


You may have indeed said that... but that doesn't make it valid.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I cannot recommend Lubri moly - a colliodal suspension (milk) of solid moly particles (dirt/dust). One conservative treatment almost killed my FIT. Wrong kind of moly. Dont know if anyone sells the soluble and preferred Molydithiocarbamate or similar Particulate can agglomerate to be trapped by the filter or become entrained in head and pan varnish and sludge.


You need a tougher vehicle LOL. My Jeep eats MoS2 for breakfast, lunch and dinner!
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I cannot recommend Lubri moly - a colliodal suspension (milk) of solid moly particles (dirt/dust). One conservative treatment almost killed my FIT. Wrong kind of moly. Dont know if anyone sells the soluble and preferred Molydithiocarbamate or similar Particulate can agglomerate to be trapped by the filter or become entrained in head and pan varnish and sludge.


Yeah, I read about your "incident" ARCO. That seemed very peculiar and out of sync from what most others are experiencing. However, LubeGard Biotech has a good dose of Moly and it's the organic/soluable type. Even has a dash of Boron.

The Moly re-suspending in the ester-solvent treated OCI's that Gary saw, is actually exciting to me....I would hope that most of that Moly is from it sloughing off slowly over time...and not because there was "Moly-Sludge" being released. I guess if you do have sludge in your motor, you could expect the moly to invade those sludge particles and if/when they broke loose, you could see a spike in Moly in a used oil analysis. But I would tend to think that the residual moly he was seeing, was Moly ions sloughing off in the oil, which shows how well of a bond this moly makes and how effective it might possibly be in coating an engine's internals, creating a much more friction-reducing surface.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
so everyone keep using lubromoly mos2 as i said many times that junk moly falls out eventually


You may have indeed said that... but that doesn't make it valid.


I don't mean to be Captain Obvious, but isn't MoS2 just moly disulfide.
21.gif
 
I have no idea where that moly is coming from. It is my understanding that moly bonds to metal (rust) and not to itself. So, it isn't like paint that can be applied layer after layer.

Also, that is a ton of moly showing up - significantly more than the original oil had. For an oil with [censored] averages, it would require every single bit of moly from about 20 oil changes to remain. Which just isn't possible.

Is it possible the moly is coming from the Fast Track AutoRX??
 
Originally Posted By: Gabe
...
Is it possible the moly is coming from the Fast Track AutoRX??


The moly appearing has to do with ARX but it isn't "from" ARX. There is nothing in ARX that will show up on an analysis.
 
Originally Posted By: Gabe
I have no idea where that moly is coming from. It is my understanding that moly bonds to metal (rust) and not to itself. So, it isn't like paint that can be applied layer after layer.

Also, that is a ton of moly showing up - significantly more than the original oil had. For an oil with [censored] averages, it would require every single bit of moly from about 20 oil changes to remain. Which just isn't possible.


There isn't enough Moly in any oil to plate out on the entire surfaces inside the engine. So, it's not surprising to me that it would take time for the moly to slough off, and while the moly was detaching, it would spike the moly in several used oil analysis many times higher than any of the oils had previously. Perhaps Gary used MOS2 prior....I think he did.

His used oil analysis does prove that an initial high dose moly to coat the engine's internals is necessary to get good complete coverage, and lower doses will be sufficient to maintain the moly coating.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
You need a tougher vehicle LOL. My Jeep eats MoS2 for breakfast, lunch and dinner!


Lend it to ARCO for a season and see how tough it really is. Sorry ARCO, couldn't resist.
wink.gif
 
GA was referring to VSOT if my memory serves me correctly. VSOT as the consistency of STP and some might just lay in the sump leaching out? Just a thought. I along with many others here had great results with Lubro-Moly and will continue to use it. VSOT was loved here too. Opinions vary.
 
You are correct demarpaint. It was VSOT.

But I find it very exciting that it takes moly so long to slough off....so simply flushing the moly laiden oil still leaves a ton of moly ON THE ENGINE and it takes awhile for it to remove itself from operation.
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
You are correct demarpaint. It was VSOT.

But I find it very exciting that it takes moly so long to slough off....so simply flushing the moly laiden oil still leaves a ton of moly ON THE ENGINE and it takes awhile for it to remove itself from operation.



Yep. Which is why something like Lubro-Moly could be used every other OCI, once a year, or added 1 ounce/qt of oil as a maint dose, after an initial treatment. Take your pick. There was a lot of discussion about this in the past, and in my case via PM. I also had some nice email exchanges with the people who make the product, and I'm confident it works as advertised, and won't sludge up or damage an engine. Opinions vary.
 
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