Moly question

[13Tacoma]

I have the factory fill for a while on my toyota with TGMO 0w20. I understand a lot of people like this oil because it has more moly than most. Is moly just a lubricant that TGMO uses as part of the anti wear additives?

If I'm not mistaken, TGMO is made by Mobil/Exxon to Toyota specifications. What are the anti wear additives other companies use in their oils? Is one better than the other? I ask because TGMO seems to be popular because of the moly.

For example, what does M1 AFE 0w20 use as their anti wear package?

 

[bepperb]

You could see a lot of info on the PQIA website, but keep in mind there are organic additives that would not show up there.

Here's a direct answer to your question, though, M1 does use Moly, Calcium, ZDDP as antiwear/friction reducing additives:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/mobil1.htm

 

[Ayrton]

13Tacoma -

Yeah, Mobil 1 always seems to love Moly. I don't think I know of a Mobil 1 motor oil for the street without Moly?

Whatever the case, good luck with your truck! I'm sure it will supply many great years of service. I'm sure whether you choose TGMO or Mobil 1 you will be very happy.

 

[Roob]

You are correct in that moly is part of the anti wear add pack.
The main difference with TGMO that puts it above M1 is its viscosity. TGMO being 216 and M1 being 172.
Now M1 is a great oil with lots of advantages but it's not in the same category as TGMO, they are both made by Exxon Mobil.
The higher vi of TGMO will decrease startup wear and increase mpg, especially in severe driving or short trips.
For more info on both oils checkout the VOA and UOA section of the forums.
For the price of TGMO you won't find a better oil, unless you try the new Mazda with moly oil that is about .80 cents more a quart.

 

[Solarent]

Here is a great list of the types of chemicals and what they are used for in an additive pack.

For example:
Anti-Wear and Extreme Pressure Additives (Surface Protective Additive):
ZDDP, ZTDC, Moly TDC, Antimony TDC, Organic Sulfur-Phosphorus-Nitrogen compounds, Borates and Borate Esters, Tricresyl Phosphates, amine phostphates, and other phosphate esters, Chlorine compounds, and lead diamylcarbamates, lead and barium naphthenates, sulfurized olefins; protective film interacts at various temperatures and pressures to provide either a plastic interface or to provide a compound which shears at the surface.

In many cases a typical oil will use more then one of the above that work in a synergistic way with each other (for example Moly + ZDDP). Some of these are also multi-functional which means they may do more then AW but also act as antioxidants, detergents etc.

 

[chubbs1]

The only problem I have with TGMO is that there is no way in the world it is not full of VII's. These VII's are not natural thus can leave deposits and shear unlike an oil like M1 0w20. I know this statement will make some angry but I don't think you can argue that a naturally high VI vs an oil with unnatural VII's.

Please note. I am not Bashing TGMO. I am just making the point that just because an oil has a very high VI doesnt make it the "best". There is a give and take. Just as with moly.

 

[Roob]

From what I've read on here from people like CATERHAM, TGMO is very shear stable. UOA's have shown this from what I understand.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
The only problem I have with TGMO is that there is no way in the world it is not full of VII's. These VII's are not natural thus can leave deposits and shear unlike an oil like M1 0w20. I know this statement will make some angry but I don't think you can argue that a naturally high VI vs an oil with unnatural VII's.

Please note. I am not Bashing TGMO. I am just making the point that just because an oil has a very high VI doesnt make it the "best". There is a give and take. Just as with moly.


Well, that's because you're in Florida. If you were starting a car in sub zero weather three months a year it would be of greater benefit to you. In your climate I'd agree shear resistance would be more beneficial than a high viscosity index.

One way to really demonstrate this would be to swap houses for the next four months or so, you could experience a Wisconsin winter and I could get my hammock back out of storage...

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I am just making the point that just because an oil has a very high VI doesnt make it the "best". There is a give and take. Just as with moly.



I agree with you. I realize that TGMO on paper is great, but I rather go with what my car likes better, as unscientific/crazy as that sounds.

 

[Brent_G]

You will not notice a difference between m1 and tomorrow in the winter. And if I'm not mistaken m 1 0w20 is thinner in extreme cold (-30c or something that) then tgmo.

 

[13Tacoma]

Alright, so if I understand correctly most additives serve multiple purposes. Moly is a good anti wear additive, but others are good too.

I must have been confused, so the VI is what mostly attracts people to TGMO? Would that matter if the vehicle is in California and the lowest temps it will ever see is around 35 degrees?

Originally Posted By: Solarent
Here is a great list of the types of chemicals and what they are used for in an additive pack.

For example:
Anti-Wear and Extreme Pressure Additives (Surface Protective Additive):
ZDDP, ZTDC, Moly TDC, Antimony TDC, Organic Sulfur-Phosphorus-Nitrogen compounds, Borates and Borate Esters, Tricresyl Phosphates, amine phostphates, and other phosphate esters, Chlorine compounds, and lead diamylcarbamates, lead and barium naphthenates, sulfurized olefins; protective film interacts at various temperatures and pressures to provide either a plastic interface or to provide a compound which shears at the surface.

In many cases a typical oil will use more then one of the above that work in a synergistic way with each other (for example Moly + ZDDP). Some of these are also multi-functional which means they may do more then AW but also act as antioxidants, detergents etc.


Thanks very much for the read. It was very informative.

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
The only problem I have with TGMO is that there is no way in the world it is not full of VII's. These VII's are not natural thus can leave deposits and shear unlike an oil like M1 0w20. I know this statement will make some angry but I don't think you can argue that a naturally high VI vs an oil with unnatural VII's.

Please note. I am not Bashing TGMO. I am just making the point that just because an oil has a very high VI doesnt make it the "best". There is a give and take. Just as with moly.


I'm sorry, what are VIIs?

 

[dailydriver]

^^ Viscosity Index Improvers.

I will let Mola Kule (or any of the other tribologists on here) come on here and give an accurate description/definition as I will not get it 100% correct.

 

[13Tacoma]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^ Viscosity Index Improvers.

I will let Mola Kule (or any of the other tribologists on here) come on here and give an accurate description/definition as I will not get it 100% correct.

Oh I see. So the Viscosity Index is not a true measurement with those VIIs present?

 

[Solarent]

This thread is a good read on VI - and it covers a lot of discussion about TGMO. It'll be a long read, but very helpful to answer your questions.

As far as valuing VI over moly content - you need both a strong VI and good Antiwear package to have a good oil - if you are missing one or the other then the oil isn't as good as it could be. Some members here value VI, others value the additives, still others say they look for a balance. IMO the most important thing is find an oil that suits your needs, comfort level and desired maintenance schedule. The best oil, is the one that gets keeps your vehicle running, gets changed when you want it to, and fits your financial needs. For some people that's TGMO, for others its M1, yet others its VWB, PYB or QSGB. The important part is that your oil choice works for your conditions, your engine and on your schedule. The rest is just gravy.

 

[dailydriver]

^^^VERY well put!