Modular + 40 wt = High Idle Starts - Load Sensor?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


That's a SMALL excerpt from the EEC-IV strategy bible.



LOL small huh. Wow. It's amazing.

It does have an entry that mentions a LOAD value. Seems like viscosity could impact that value or am I wrong?


Load is gleaned through the MAF meter. Yes, I imagine if the oil was causing excessive drag, you would see more "load", but that is not a cue for it to increase the engine RPM; simply a compensation mechanism to maintain consistency.

The "load" parameter is more relative to you driving along the road, then encountering a hill. Which increases load.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

OK. I got confused then. I thought it was load at start-up. Or something measuring drag/resistance during the start-up sequence.

bmwtechguy proposed this to me earlier. It sure sounds reasonable to me. Do you suppose within all of those parameters and values and readings in that BIBLE that something to this effect takes place?

Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
A crankshaft "load sensor" effect may be the result of the engine management ecu's extensive programming. With the ecu measuring engine rpm's, at cold start it is "trying" to get the engine to that initial rpm by varying output to the IAC valve, injection timing and dwell, and ignition timing. If the oil is thicker, then it will take higher/different levels of certain outputs mentioned to achieve the same "desired" rpm for initial cold start. Perhaps the engine ecu is programmed to extend the time interval at this rpm when it uses these higher/different output levels to achieve this rpm. Make any sense to you?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
OK. I got confused then. I thought it was load at start-up. Or something measuring drag/resistance during the start-up sequence.

bmwtechguy proposed this to me earlier. It sure sounds reasonable to me. Do you suppose within all of those parameters and values and readings in that BIBLE that something to this effect takes place?

Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
A crankshaft "load sensor" effect may be the result of the engine management ecu's extensive programming. With the ecu measuring engine rpm's, at cold start it is "trying" to get the engine to that initial rpm by varying output to the IAC valve, injection timing and dwell, and ignition timing. If the oil is thicker, then it will take higher/different levels of certain outputs mentioned to achieve the same "desired" rpm for initial cold start. Perhaps the engine ecu is programmed to extend the time interval at this rpm when it uses these higher/different output levels to achieve this rpm. Make any sense to you?


While it sounds reasonable, it does not really explain what you are experiencing, since nobody else here with a Ford is experiencing the same thing. And we all have the same cold start strategy.

And myself in particular, am not experiencing the same extended high idle periods with a heavier oil at this time of year that you are.

Maybe you have a sensor going bad? Do you have access to a GOOD code reader/scanner? You can monitor load, ACT, ECT...etc with one of those. Which I think may help figure this out.

For example, the Expedition shows 12-15% load at idle according to the Snap-On scanner I was using.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The Expedition hits 1,200RPM and stays there for about 15-20 seconds before idling down, no matter what is in the sump. 5w20 or 5w40.

My Lincoln does it, so did my Mustang. It is standard Ford cold start behaviour.

You are supposed to wait for it to idle down before putting it in gear.


My 2004 Mercury Marauder with the 4.6 DOHC Engine does the same thing, it takes about 15 seconds or so for the idle to come down.

I have used these OIL's:

1) Amsoil XL 5W-20
2) Amsoil 0W-20
3) Motorcraft 5W-20
4) Pennzoil Platinum 5w30

There was no difference between any of these oil's in regards to the amount of time it took for the idle to come down.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

While it sounds reasonable, it does not really explain what you are experiencing, since nobody else here with a Ford is experiencing the same thing. And we all have the same cold start strategy.

And myself in particular, am not experiencing the same extended high idle periods with a heavier oil at this time of year that you are.



I spent so much time talking about last winter's GC run that I've sort of confused the current 5w-40 status. I'm not really experiencing that much of a departure at start-up from what is considered normal when it's warm out. (By the way I mentioned 20 seconds at 75F initially which is incorrect, it's less and likely in line with what you see).
Temperatures have fluctuated between 45 - 80F over the last few weeks so I got a taste of the high idle as the temps dropped. Which naturally aligns with the GC trend.

So to clarify, when it's warm out it's a moderate difference at best. That's the reason why I thought it significant if the engine somehow can sense drag in some way.

At any rate, I posted this because I simply thought I stumbled onto the reason why a 40 weight might do this in a Modular. I never considered the idea that there could be something wrong (or going)on the car and that it could be exploited by the heavier oil. I also wanted to share in case it went the other way and this info could help someone else. Or that it even suggests(perhaps) that the car is more ideal when a light 30 weight or 20 is in use. No offense! I know you love the Forty!

No, I don't have a scanner. My mechanic would probably love me to walk in with this scenario too. For a few hundred bucks I'm sure he can figure it out lol. Since it's only going to get warmer I'm not going to sweat it to death. I took my MAF out last year and cleaned it. Tried to eliminate pinging when using regular. It didn't do too much so I put Premium in and it goes away. I bet I need a new MAF. Since you mentioned it plays a role in start-up...might be the answer to both issues.

Thanks for your time OVERK1LL. Didn't mean to take up so much of it.

 

[OVERKILL]

No problem. I'm a Ford guy, I can talk Ford all day, LMAO!

Make sure you didn't damage your MAF wires when you cleaned it. Did you use MAF cleaner?

The ACT and ECT can both be checked with a multimeter; no mechanic visit necessary. MAF is not as easy. Though you could score one from a wreckers and swap it out. If it fixes your problem... Well, that was cheap and easy

 

[TomB985]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It specs 5w30 or 10w30. It's a 1996.


Or 5w20!

http://www.ints.com/support/documents/Ford5W-20motoroil.pdf

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TomB985
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It specs 5w30 or 10w30. It's a 1996.


Or 5w20!

http://www.ints.com/support/documents/Ford5W-20motoroil.pdf



That is a back-spec, not the original spec. Whilst 5w20 is safe for the engine, that was not what was spec'd for it from the factory.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
No problem. I'm a Ford guy, I can talk Ford all day, LMAO!

Make sure you didn't damage your MAF wires when you cleaned it. Did you use MAF cleaner?

The ACT and ECT can both be checked with a multimeter; no mechanic visit necessary. MAF is not as easy. Though you could score one from a wreckers and swap it out. If it fixes your problem... Well, that was cheap and easy

I actually feel like I did the most damage when I started using the SEARCH function on here LOL! I never used to worry about anything years ago. Now I like to listen to how the engine sounds on a PAO/ESTER base.

I did use the MAF cleaner when I cleaned it. Someone, somewhere, mentioned that a lot of times the MAF is the ping culprit even if you clean it to as new condition. I guess they just go sometimes. Advance auto sells their Reman units for 90 bucks, I don't know if you can try a part like that out on the car and still return it, if it's not the issue. I am usually inclined to get a Motorcraft part but I know that one is more than double. Probably worth a shot if they let me try it.
I'm keeping the mechanic out of it for now.

 

[OVERKILL]

I'd just go to the wreckers and grab one. Return it if it doesn't fix it. They won't care.

I was probably the one who mentioned cleaning the MAF. But it is definitely something you have to be VERY careful with.

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
My 96 Grand Marquis also has the 4.6 and it goes to high idle for about 15-20 seconds at start.


All our Panthers do that even in the Miami blazing sun.

 

[mechtech2]

Ford Zetec engines have no load sensor.
I never heard of a crank load sensor in any engine.

They also are not known for being picky about oil. A 10-40 or so can cause lifter bucket drag when cold, but this can be with any similar engine. If it is a VCT equipped engine, the thick oil may also need to warm up. But these are cold weather problems.

A high initial idle is normal and good.
But as good maintenance, clean your throttle body bore and plate shiny clean, and then the idle air motor. Make sure the PCV, vacuum lines, connections, and intake are leak free.

 

[chevrofreak]

My 96 CVPI jumps to 1150~ RPM (according to the scangauge) and idles down from there. I wait until it is below 1,000rpm before putting it in reverse. This is with a 0W-40 HDEO, but it has acted the same even when running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20.

 

[Ben99GT]

Our old Toyota T100 idled up to 2000+ rpm on cold starts and takes quite a while to idle down. The trans even takes forever upshift when cold to speed up warm up time. I've always wondered why so much RPM when cold, as it doesn't seem like it would be good for the engine. It's had that behavior since day one though, Ford's cold start parameters seem remarkably tame by comparison.