Mobil Drive Clean 5w-30 (GF-4), 2,503 miles, 2005 Subaru WRX STi

[AndyH]

Here are the results of my first oil change on my 2005 Subaru WRX STi, performed at 4,971 miles with a total of 2,503 miles on the Mobil Drive Clean 5w-30 (newest ILSAC GF-4 variety) oil.

After reading Tim's post on the same oil shearing out of grade here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009004
I started second-guessing my decision to run this oil in my STi. However, I ran the oil for the full 2,500 I had originally intended and then sent it off to Blackstone for analysis. Here are the results:

code:

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UNIT NUMBER: 05 STI

REPORT DATE: 2/14/05

NAME: AndyH

LAB NUMBER: C37687



EQUIPMENT MAKE: Subaru

EQUIPMENT MODEL: 2.5L Turbo

FUEL TYPE: Gasoline (Unleaded)

OIL USE INTERVAL: 2,503 Miles

OIL TYPE & GRADE: Mobil Drive Clean 5W/30 (SM)

MAKE-UP OIL ADDED: 0 qts



COMMENTS: Copper and silicon read on the high side in the initial sample from

your Subaru. This engine is still fairly new at 4971 total miles, so we are

going to blame these findings on lingering wear-in at brass and bronze parts,

and they should improve next sample. All other wear looks great. The universal

averages column shows typical wear from this type of engine after 3700 miles

on the oil. The viscosity was normal and no fuel dilution or anti-freeze was

present. Check back next oil change for another look at copper and silicon.

They should drop.



MI/HR on Oil: 2,503 Universal

MI/HR on Unit: 4,971 Averages

Sample Date: 02/05/05



Aluminum: 3 4

Chromium: 1 1

Iron: 11 9

Copper: 23 8

Lead: 2 3

Tin: 0 1

Molybdenum: 179 50

Nickel: 0 0

Manganese: 0 1

Silver: 0 0

Titanium: 0 0

Potassium: 0 1

Boron: 41 56

Silicon: 17 13

Sodium: 192 17

Calcium: 1034 2450

Magnesium: 16 73

Phosphorus: 435 749

Zinc: 604 874

Barium: 3 0



SUS Viscosity @ 210 Degrees F: 54.2 (values should be 54 - 61)

Flashpoint in Degrees F: 400 (value should be >365)

Fuel:
Antifreeze: 0.0% (value should be 0%)

Water: 0.0% (value should be
Insolubles: 0.3% (value should be pre>

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Here's a GIF image version of the report:

http://www.sju.edu/~ahedin/oil_analysis/2005-02-05_Oil_Analysis.gif



I did decide to switch oils at my last oil change, I went with Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5w-30 (SM/GF-4). I'll run this oil for 2,500 and send off a sample to Blackstone for analysis. Differences I've noticed between the MC 5w-30 and the DC 5w-30 are:

- The MC 5w-30 feels "thicker" to me in the engine, resulting in a slightly sluggish feeling in the engine when compared to the DC.

- The MC quieted the engine down a notch, especially during cold starts (temps below 20 degrees F).



At some point in the future (probably around the 10,000 mile mark) I'm going to be switching over to German Castrol 0w-30 and will likely stretch the OCI out to 5,000 miles.



Any and all comments are appreciated!

 

[Marlin]

Why not try the new Mobil7500 next time. Supposed to be a Grp3 syn with part PAO and a good add pack?

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by Marlin:
Why not try the new Mobil7500 next time. Supposed to be a Grp3 syn with part PAO and a good add pack?

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I just may do that. At this point I'm undecided on the oil to use for my next oil change. The Mobil 7500 is one of the oils that I'm considering.

 

[Gary Allan]

The oil still qualifies as a 30 weight ..but just barely.

These are probably antiquated specs from XOM's site:
5W-30 Newer Vehicle Formula
5W-30 High Mileage Formula
10W-30 High Mileage Formula
10W-40 High Mileage Formula
API Service Classification SL/CF SL/CF SL/CF SL/CF
Gravity, API 32.7 32.6 30.8 30.8
Specific Gravity 0.862 0.862 0.872 0.872
Pour Point, ºC (ºF) -42 (-44) -42 (-44) -36 (-33) -30 (-22)
Flash Point, ºC (ºF), ASTM D 92 200 (392) 200 (392) 200 (392) 227 (440)
Viscosity
cSt at 40ºC 65.1 61.4 75.0 96.9
cSt at 100ºC 10.9 10.4 11.4 14.1
CCS, cP 5896 @ -30ºC 5970 @ -30ºC 6290 @ -25ºC 6270 @ -25ºC
MRV, cP 20,800 @ -35ºC 25,968 @ -35ºC 21,800 @ -30ºC 23,900 @ -30ºC
Viscosity Index 159 160 145 150
Energy Conserving Yes Yes Yes No


This is almost a 20 weight over a very short OCI. I often think that this is factored in OEM specs that recommend 5w-30 oils. That is, 20 weights are fine ..but the 5w-30 allows longer drains. Sorta like Amsoil in reverse.

How's that Mainline traffic treating you? My wife works at The Devereux Foundation. Too expensive to live there for us. You know you're in a high cost of living area when you have a Maybach dealership within 10 minutes of your home.

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
The oil still qualifies as a 30 weight ..but just barely.

{SNIP}

This is almost a 20 weight over a very short OCI. I often think that this is factored in OEM specs that recommend 5w-30 oils. That is, 20 weights are fine ..but the 5w-30 allows longer drains. Sorta like Amsoil in reverse.

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Call me crazy, but I'm not really comfortable with this oil in my STi. I think I'd really worry about running it in the heat of the summer. The remainder of the case will likely be gifted to my sister to run in her "beater".

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:

How's that Mainline traffic treating you? My wife works at The Devereux Foundation. Too expensive to live there for us. You know you're in a high cost of living area when you have a Maybach dealership within 10 minutes of your home.

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Traffic on my commute (I work in Bala Cynwyd) is a bit rough, but thankfully about 1/2 of it is on backroads which (when traffic allows) provides for some nice "spirited" driving

Funny you mentioned that Maybach dealership. I so rarely travel on Route 30 through Devon that I didn't even know that it had opened. Imagine my surprise when I noticed it for the first time.

[ February 15, 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: AndyH ]

 

[Al]

192 Sodium,???

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:
192 Sodium,???

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I don't understand the low calcium either and the zddp looks way low also.

Unless Molakule or someone has an explanation, I'm thinking a lab error.

zddp can't be that low.

 

[JohnBrowning]

WOW, I would never in a million years put a 5W30 light duty PCO Dino product in a Turbo application!! Longterm you are asking for trouble with cokeing!!! It is my opion that anything less then an HTHS of 3.3 in this application should be avoided. I would also avoid any dino oil products not specificly designed for turbo charged applications.If this is a lease I can see going the cheapest route but is you are in it to own it I would look else ware oil wise.I think you are going to be much better off with some of the other choices you mentioned such as GC, M1 0W40 or M1 TSUV!!!

That copper is either from an oil cooler, oil pump or turbo charger. I do not know what is normal for these but I am going to guess it is a bit high for the low milage even with break in considered. The insolubles look high for the milage (OCI)on a new car as well. Overall it looks good.

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
WOW, I would never in a million years put a 5W30 light duty PCO Dino product in a Turbo application!!

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Looks like I should have done more research prior to picking Mobil Drive Clean

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Longterm you are asking for trouble with cokeing!!!

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Yes, I agree. But don't worry, I have no plans to run dino in this car over the longterm. As I mentioned, I was only using it because so many people in the Subaru forums felt strongly about running dino oil in the WRX and STi for the first 10,000 miles.

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
It is my opion that anything less then an HTHS of 3.3 in this application should be avoided. I would also avoid any dino oil products not specificly designed for turbo charged applications.

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Care to make any recommendations for a dino oil? I plan on one more oil change with dino oil (at 7,500 miles). Once I hit 10,000 miles I'm switch to synthetic.

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
If this is a lease I can see going the cheapest route but is you are in it to own it I would look else ware oil wise.

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No, it's not a lease...I was hoping to keep this car for at least 5 years, if not longer.

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I think you are going to be much better off with some of the other choices you mentioned such as GC, M1 0W40 or M1 TSUV!!!

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Agreed.

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
That copper is either from an oil cooler, oil pump or turbo charger. I do not know what is normal for these but I am going to guess it is a bit high for the low milage even with break in considered. The insolubles look high for the milage (OCI)on a new car as well. Overall it looks good.

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I sure hope those readings go down with my next analysis. I guess I won't worry too much about it at this point, seeing as how I'm not running the DC anymore.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Palut]

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyH:
Care to make any recommendations for a dino oil? I plan on one more oil change with dino oil (at 7,500 miles). Once I hit 10,000 miles I'm switch to synthetic.

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If it gets warm enough by your next oil change that you never see temps below 20 F, you could use a 15W-40 HDEO like Delo 400. Since it's designed for use in big-rigs and the like, its designed to be used in turbos.

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
It is my opion that anything less then an HTHS of 3.3 in this application should be avoided.

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Another follow-up question...where can I find HT/HS specs on various dino oils? I looked on Mobil's site and couldn't find anything, and then took a gander on Castrol's site (looking at the GTX oil). I did find some specs, but they don't list HT/HS.

 

[JohnBrowning]

See if you can find Delo or Delvac in 10W30 at a heavy equipment service center. You might need to bring them a container so they can pump it into. I can not think of any OTC dino 10W30's I would want in a turbo application. I think Delvac and Delo only sell their 10W30's in 5 gallon pails and 55 gallon drums!

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
See if you can find Delo or Delvac in 10W30 at a heavy equipment service center. You might need to bring them a container so they can pump it into. I can not think of any OTC dino 10W30's I would want in a turbo application. I think Delvac and Delo only sell their 10W30's in 5 gallon pails and 55 gallon drums!

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Thanks John (and Palut), I've got some time before my next oil change to figure out what to run.

Maybe I'll just forget the dino and jump on over to synthetic a bit earlier than I intended.

 

[vvk]

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyH:
Maybe I'll just forget the dino and jump on over to synthetic a bit earlier than I intended.

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Don't do it, man! Be strong!

Continue using dino until 10k miles. Castrol GTX 10W-30 would be my choice. If you MUST use 5W-30, I guess that's OK. Believe me, I have UOAs to prove that dino 10W-30 is perfectly fine down to 0'F. Once you do switch to synthetic, avoid Mobil 1. Use Valvoline SynPower 10W-30, Havoline Synthetic 10W-30, etc. If you want to stay with 5W-30, use BMW 5W-30 Synthetic, available cheaply from your friendly local BMW dealer (Don Rosen?) CG 0W-30 is good, if you can find it.

If you insist on Mobil 1, use 10W-30 or the new 10W-40 EP, when available. Mobil 1 5W-30 is no good for this engine.

 

[Palut]

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyH:
Another follow-up question...where can I find HT/HS specs on various dino oils? I looked on Mobil's site and couldn't find anything, and then took a gander on Castrol's site (looking at the GTX oil). I did find some specs, but they don't list HT/HS.

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Mobil, Chevron and Castrol don't seem the realize that we care about HT/HS or cold pumping numbers. Those companies put out, IMO, some crappy data sheets. One must call their tech support lines to get good answers.

On the other hand, Pennzoil has some of the best data sheets I've seen online. Cold pumping numbers, HT/HS ratings, everything you want to see!

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by vvk:

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyH:
Maybe I'll just forget the dino and jump on over to synthetic a bit earlier than I intended.

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Don't do it, man! Be strong!

Continue using dino until 10k miles. Castrol GTX 10W-30 would be my choice. If you MUST use 5W-30, I guess that's OK. Believe me, I have UOAs to prove that dino 10W-30 is perfectly fine down to 0'F.

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Thanks, I'll add Castrol GTX 10w-30 into my list of dino oils to consider for the next change. By the time I'm due for the change, I shouldn't need to worry about any cold temps here in the Delaware Valley.

quote:

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Originally posted by vvk:
Once you do switch to synthetic, avoid Mobil 1. Use Valvoline SynPower 10W-30, Havoline Synthetic 10W-30, etc. If you want to stay with 5W-30, use BMW 5W-30 Synthetic, available cheaply from your friendly local BMW dealer (Don Rosen?) CG 0W-30 is good, if you can find it.

If you insist on Mobil 1, use 10W-30 or the new 10W-40 EP, when available. Mobil 1 5W-30 is no good for this engine.

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I do have some German Castrol 0w-30 ready to go into the STi when I make the switch-over to synth, not too hard to source it as I found it in my local AutoZone (on City Line Avenue). I also have some leftover Mobil 1 0w-40 which I was considering running in my STi, but the new EP Mobil 1's look interesting too. But for now, I'll worry about the next dino oil change and think about what synthetic I want to run later.

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by Palut:

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyH:
Another follow-up question...where can I find HT/HS specs on various dino oils? I looked on Mobil's site and couldn't find anything, and then took a gander on Castrol's site (looking at the GTX oil). I did find some specs, but they don't list HT/HS.

---

Mobil, Chevron and Castrol don't seem the realize that we care about HT/HS or cold pumping numbers. Those companies put out, IMO, some crappy data sheets. One must call their tech support lines to get good answers.

On the other hand, Pennzoil has some of the best data sheets I've seen online. Cold pumping numbers, HT/HS ratings, everything you want to see!

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Thanks for the info, I'll check out Pennzoil's offerings. I was reading a message thread on their new Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic oil which sounds promising. I'll have to take a closer look at their dino offerings as well.

 

[OldCars]

Andy,

My N/A '97 Impreza was not very fond of thin 5w-30 Mobil 1 Syn. So I am switching to 10w-30 Castrol GTX with short OCI. The Subaru is my wife's car which gets a lot of short distance drives.

Turbo charged engines, especially the STi, can be hard on thin oil. Unless you plan to do very short Syn OCI, my two cents, go with 5w-40 blends.

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by OldCars:
Andy,

My N/A '97 Impreza was not very fond of thin 5w-30 Mobil 1 Syn. So I am switching to 10w-30 Castrol GTX with short OCI. The Subaru is my wife's car which gets a lot of short distance drives.

Turbo charged engines, especially the STi, can be hard on thin oil. Unless you plan to do very short Syn OCI, my two cents, go with 5w-40 blends.

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Thanks for your thoughts. I probably would have run a dino 10w-30 during the initial 10,000 miles but I wanted to stick with the recommended 5w-30 grade, and I wanted the 5-weight for the winter (overnight temps here can get down in the low single digits overnight and the car is parked outside).

I am considering a 5w-40 weight (probably Mobil 1 T&SUV) in the future, or 0w-40 (Mobil 1, which I used to run in my Audi S4 and still have 2 cases of) but will likely start with the German Castrol 0w-30 (a "thick" 30 weight oil from what I understand). Of course I'm open to other suggestions as well.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
The oil still qualifies as a 30 weight ..but just barely.

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No, it doesn't. 54.2 SUS is 8.54 cSt, which is a 20 wt.

Take a look at my Pennzoil 5w20 UOA.