Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40

Doug Hillary · Aug 14, 2003

Hi,

Delvac 1 has no friction modifiers to my knowledge. It is more than suitable for most modern petrol engines
The high TBN is required for diesel use of course
and Porsche have always had a diesel oil secondary requirement on their oils. Many Euro makers state ACEA A3/B3 for their engines - a petrol and diesel rating

Regards

moribundman · Aug 14, 2003

Is the lack of friction modifiers a good thing? I thought friction modifiers gave an oil additional lubricity?

buster · Aug 14, 2003

D1 is a good choice for gas engines, but it doesn't contain the FM's that M1 has. I suggest mixing M1 with D1. I'm running D1 now in a 1.8L Toyota and have notice a decrease in MPG and HP. I have the Fumoto drain valve so I plan on draining a qt out and filling it up with M1 5w-30. Molekule thought it would be a good combination. D1 is as good of an oil as you will find.

If you read the desctiption on Mobil's website, you will see that it says D1 is an excellent choice for gas engines, high performance engines specifically. Freind at work is mixing a little D1 with M1 5w-30 for his C5 Vette. He wants to stay with Mobil 1 bc he uses it in all his cars and likes the fact that all of their oils are compatible. So mixing is not an issue. I did suggest Amsoil to him, being it's a heavier 30wt and possibly a better choice for an LS1, but he likes the mixing compatibility of M1.

quote:

These applications include: on-highway engines operating in both high speed/high load and short haul pick-up/delivery; off-highway engines operating in severe low speed/heavy load conditions; high performance gasoline engines; mixed fleets

[ August 15, 2003, 04:56 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

Dr. T · Aug 15, 2003

Diesel engine oil has different specs than gas engine oil. It has more stringent cleanliness specs. since a diesel engine produces a lot of soot compared to gas engines. Just going the other way around though (using a gas oil in a diesel engine - especially a large truck engine) may not be the best idea.

So, in a work..yes...you can safely use a Delvac 1 in a gas engine (as well as diesel). It is a little overkill since it has things that aren't needed and you can't get it in quarts. Otherwise, it's safe and does a good job of cleaning. And yes, it will cause a decrease in fuel consumption over a 30 weight.

boxcartommie22 · Aug 15, 2003

delvac 1 has loads of friction mod and ep additives but in my vehicles i mix 2 qts of redlines 5w 40 because of the moly 950ppm and of course it has 1400 ppm of zddp and 1300 of phos..delvac 1 has 1080 zddp and 1280 of phos. along with 180 of boron...redline oils don't have boron in them..so iwant a mixture with all the goodies

moribundman · Aug 15, 2003

Okay, so some say D1 does contain friction modifiers, others say it doesn't contain them.
A site I checked said D1 had "friction modifying properties" without going into it.

MolaKule · Aug 15, 2003

I know and that's confusing:

What the site should say is, "Delvac 1 Contains No Additional Frictional Modifiers beyond the Esters Comprising the Base Oils."

Redline oils do have about 35 ppm of Boron in their oils.

[ August 15, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

moribundman · Aug 15, 2003

Thanks for clarifying that, MolaKule.

What's the reason behind D1 not containing any extra friction modifiers?

M Smith · Aug 15, 2003

The only source of Delvac 1 I could find was nearby Mobil distributor, and boy was it expensive! It worked out to be nearly $7/qt, which was too rich for my blood.

Ron · Aug 15, 2003

Hi,check out the local Freightliner truck depot.They sell D-1 locally for $21/gal.

JohnBrowning · Aug 15, 2003

Molakule what is your take on the lack of Magnessium in Delvac 1. How does this affect gasoline engines! D0 you think that this is a critical point?

MolaKule · Aug 16, 2003

quote:

Aluminum 1ppm
Chromium 0ppm
Iron 2ppm
Copper 0ppm
Lead 0ppm
Tin 0ppm
Molybdenum 0ppm
Nickel 0ppm
Manganese 0ppm
Silver 0ppm
Titanium 0ppm
Potassium 0ppm
Boron 154ppm
Silicon 6ppm
Sodium 1ppm
Calcium 2107ppm
Magnesium 421ppm
Phosphorus 1090ppm
Zinc 1216 ppm
Barium 0ppm
SUS VISCOSITY@210F 78.6
Flashpoint 425F
Insolubles 0.0

I don't see any lack of magnesium in the report from the VOA thead.

Additional friction modifiers are not needed for diesel engines since their cam/follower mechanics are low friction systems. The priority in diesel engines are AW/EP adds (ZDDP and Boron), soot and particulate control (DD's), TBN retention due to fuel acids (magnesium and calcium), and rust and corrosion prevention (ashless rust inhibitor/corrosion inhibitor adds not detected in VOA and UOA's).

Moly is a friction modifier. AW, and anti-oxidant. The esters in Delvac 1 provide any friction reduction that is needed.

[ August 16, 2003, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

Doug Hillary · Aug 16, 2003

Hi,
MolaKule - heavy diesel valve and injection actuation systems are far from "low friction"
Many use ceramic cam follower rollers to reduce the cam "wiping" load and I have seen many cam lobes worn off for various reasons
As injection pressure increases, in order to meet new emission standards the cam "wiping" loads will increase too as they have done for the last decade
This is another reason for the high HT/HS requirements in modern heavy diesel lubricants such as in Delvac 1
Oil Centrifuge units are proving popular in reducing cam lobe wear as they have an ability to remove many of the sub1M contaminates and most of the soot
Regards

sub_zero · Aug 16, 2003

What's an Oil Centrifuge Unit? I'm not even going to speculate.

Doug Hillary · Aug 16, 2003

Hi,

Sub_zero - a Centrifuge is a device that rotates at enough speed ( 000's RPM ) to seperate solids ( or heavier liquids ) from a liquid
In automotive terms these have been mounted to the front of a crankshaft, inserted in the pressure line from the oil pump or driven by air pressure
They can be full flow or by-pass type

The by-pass one I use ( Mann-Hummel-Spinner 2 ) is driven by oil pressure and the centrifuge container's oil level is controlled by air pressure. Spun oil is returned to the sump

They gather about 450g of solids per 120000 miles in my trucks - using Delvac 1. The full flow filters do not seem to gather any soot type solids during this time

Regards

buster · Aug 16, 2003

MK, still think M1 + D1 is a good mix? I'm running a D1/M1 mix now and will test late fall.

JohnBrowning · Aug 17, 2003

Mola thanks!

Doug I thought that centrifical seperators were falling out of fashin for bypass filter units. I thought their was some issues in Europe especialy were additves were being seperated out of soulution from the base stock? Was this just rumor?

Doug Hillary · Aug 17, 2003

Hi,
JohnBrowning - the problem with by-pass filters is the flow/volumn from the oil pump and the return time to the sump. Care must be taken not to disturb the pressure/volumn ratio too much - especially as underhood temps rise and oil capacity is reduced
In the heavy trucking field large element type by pass filters did serve a purpose in the past both as a cooler and as a supplement to the oil capacity. Oil capacities are now at about 35-40 litres in American engines. Much less in Euro engines. As weight and costs became a factor these filters lost their appeal. They are not sold now to any degree in this country or in Europe
The move to a centrifuge allows good oil return speed and very little extra weight. They are compact and trouble free. They can be tailored for very good contaminant extraction - much better than any other type with the same flow rate. They are simply the very best for soot containment!!
Expect to see more of them fitted to smaller diesels in the future as well as "in the heavy end of town"
One question though - why would anybody want to mix Delvac 1 with any other version of M1. To me it is illogical and I cannot see the purpose. D1's pour point and HT/HS are nearly the best around for such a lubricant. I keep engines well into the millions of kms - I would never blend such oils. As stated earlier I use D1 in many light petrol engines too. What will a blend achieve - I really wonder!!!

Regards

Doug Hillary · Aug 17, 2003

Hi,

sorry - to my knowledge, there is no evidence at all that suggests a centrifuge will contribute to the more rapid depletion of an oils original additive package

Regards

John_E · Oct 15, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
I'm coming back to whether I should consider using Delvac 1 5W-40 in my 2.8 12v Audi gas engine.

I now suddenly have the same question, since I just added a 1996 Audi A4 to my vehicle fleet. The engine has 65k mi / 110k km on it, presumably 75% city, so I am treating it as I would an engine nearing the 100k mi / 160k km mark. The previous owner had oil changes done every 5k mi / 8k km on dino at the local Audi dealership. I would like to stay with dino for now, at least through a full course of Auto-RX.

I dutifully use Mobil 1 0W-40 in my sludge-prone 1.8T, but for a nonturbo car getting 5k mi / 8k km of mostly city driving per year, I wonder whether I might be best off with a good dino on a 6 month or 3km mi / 5k km OCI. This still begs the question of weight for coastal southern California; I am thinking 10W-30 winter and 15W-40 summer (we have only two seasons here), if 10W-40 is still a "no-no," as it was 20 years ago.

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40

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