*Mobil 1 - PAO & Visom

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Inexpensive used oil analysis are not a good way to determine an oil's "wear" characteristics, since the particle size window sampled is VERY narrow.

Much better tool to watch for contamination, oil life, impending doom....etc. And that's what it was designed for.


What's scary is that even some long time posters haven't wrapped their heads around this simple fact.

 

[Ben99GT]

DP

 

[tig1]

Remember, Many here at BITOG believe all oil producers are making better products now than ever before. The only exception is Mobil 1.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Inexpensive used oil analysis are not a good way to determine an oil's "wear" characteristics, since the particle size window sampled is VERY narrow.

Much better tool to watch for contamination, oil life, impending doom....etc. And that's what it was designed for.


What's scary is that even some long time posters haven't wrapped their heads around this simple fact.


Not only that, but there are those who profess that they do "get" and understand it.... Yet will be in numerous threads posting the "value" of them for comparing oils against one another; condemning one oil whilst praising another based on a single sample....etc.

 

[tig1]

And over 5-10PPM.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Remember, Many here at BITOG believe all oil producers are making better products now than ever before. The only exception is Mobil 1.


Sure. Wouldn't you, of all people, say that M1 was the wizbang galactic magic elixir of all time? (you can say "yes")

M1's top tier products pull top $$. Those that, IMO, pay most of the bills have met DOWN to the competition ..just due to the economically diluted condition all of us are in.

I mean, we all aren't driving (fill in the blank of what you think is the all time greatest car) ..and most likely ..never will. Yet we can still get your average M1 pretty cheap.

How is that? With global demand going up on everything, us being "poorer" ..and a premier product getting less expensive.

How did they do that?

j/k Tig...

 

[buster]

I'm kind of surprised at how many people get hung up on the base oil issue, and don't realize the complexity and overall purpose of a motor oil. It took me awhile to get over it, but at some point you have too.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: tig1
Remember, Many here at BITOG believe all oil producers are making better products now than ever before. The only exception is Mobil 1.


Sure. Wouldn't you, of all people, say that M1 was the wizbang galactic magic elixir of all time? (you can say "yes")

M1's top tier products pull top $$. Those that, IMO, pay most of the bills have met DOWN to the competition ..just due to the economically diluted condition all of us are in.

I mean, we all aren't driving (fill in the blank of what you think is the all time greatest car) ..and most likely ..never will. Yet we can still get your average M1 pretty cheap.

How is that? With global demand going up on everything, us being "poorer" ..and a premier product getting less expensive.

How did they do that?

j/k Tig...

What?? That's what I said only in not so wordy terms.

 

[buster]

This thread should be locked down and posted at the top. Pointless talking about the same thing. Point is, formulations evolve and change. Always will.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

Not only that, but there are those who profess that they do "get" and understand it.... Yet will be in numerous threads posting the "value" of them for comparing oils against one another; condemning one oil whilst praising another based on a single sample....etc.


Me?

 

[Gary Allan]

Me? I don't care if they use canal swill ..or some chemical compound with 95 letters and 26 hyphens and a chain so long it takes up two pages on the text book when held sideways

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Inexpensive used oil analysis are not a good way to determine an oil's "wear" characteristics, since the particle size window sampled is VERY narrow.

Much better tool to watch for contamination, oil life, impending doom....etc. And that's what it was designed for.


What's scary is that even some long time posters haven't wrapped their heads around this simple fact.



Originally Posted By: dkryan
My 2001 I30 with the VQ30DE engine spit lead like a Gatling gun with every UOA that was performed.

When Blackstone personally telephones you because your lead level is higher than the national debt of the U.S., that's a clue.

The same result was encountered with Dyson Analysis in terms of high lead levels.

Both German Castrol 0w30 and RLI 10w30 SHP-HD reduced those lead levels. Some of those levels may have been due to fuel dilution. Nothing alarming, but higher than I wanted, fuel dilution-wise.

If SOPUS is willing to enter into an "ask and answer" session on BITOG, why not Mobil? I'd love to know why the lead readings are so high (in my engines with my OCIs) using (or used to use long ago) M-1.

 

[JAG]

Great find, buster. I'm highlighting certain things in the presentation that I found interesting.

The quotes I've combined below from two slides explain why the VW 503.01 spec was dropped a few years ago from the product data sheet.
Quote:
With the exception of Germany, this reformulation will be invisible to consumers and B2B customers. Claims are identical with the exception of some now obsolete or soon to be obsolete claims.

VW 503.01 – Spec will become obsolete in 2009

I was glad to see that the 5w30 ESP (Emissions Systems Protection) oil that is low in conventional additives uses an ester.
Quote:
Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 base stock composition
- Thermally stable ester
- GTL precursor


Below, they are saying the reformulated Mobil 1 0W-40 uses some of ingredients developed for Mobil 1 ESP 5w30.
Quote:
Mobil 1 ‘Ages’ builds upon the strength of Mobil 1 0W-40 by incorporating some of the latest formulation advances contained in Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5w30


In the MB M271 Wear test, the old formulation of Mobil 1 0W-40 barely passed the "Avg. Cam Outlet" wear part of the test. The new formulation easily passed it. Both easily passed the connecting rod wear part of the test.

I compared the American and German markets' product data sheets listed online against the "analytical properties" of the old and new formulations of Mobil 1 0W-40 in the presentation. The former is close to the average of the former values.

Lastly, I was disturbed by the following:
Quote:
With the exception of Germany, this reformulation will be invisible to consumers and B2B customers.
Claims are identical with the exception of some now obsolete or soon to be obsolete claims
Performance of new formulations are equivalent to current formulations
Testing is underway to provide read-across of current marketing claims to new formulations
Review will take place of current marketing literature to ensure accuracy of specific claims to new formulations (e.g. if we quote actual pour point values then this would need to be updated).
There will be no proactive customer communication relating to this reformulation. However, an internal briefing document and Q&A has been prepared to allow sales to respond in the unlikely event of a customer question.
Due to the unique definition of synthetic in Germany (Synthetic = 100% PAO) this reformulation is visible to the consumer and B2B customers.
A more proactive communication is being prepared for German use

 

[buster]

JAG, thanks for posting that other information. That is what I was referring too. At least one other person is capable of talking about something a bit more interesting relating to this PDF.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: buster
At least one other person is capable of talking about something a bit more interesting relating to this PDF.

Yeah, really. When I read most of the responses, I thought "Seriously?...this is what you are talking about when this gem of a document becomes open to our perusal?"

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Inexpensive used oil analysis are not a good way to determine an oil's "wear" characteristics, since the particle size window sampled is VERY narrow.

Much better tool to watch for contamination, oil life, impending doom....etc. And that's what it was designed for.


What's scary is that even some long time posters haven't wrapped their heads around this simple fact.



Originally Posted By: dkryan
My 2001 I30 with the VQ30DE engine spit lead like a Gatling gun with every UOA that was performed.

When Blackstone personally telephones you because your lead level is higher than the national debt of the U.S., that's a clue.

The same result was encountered with Dyson Analysis in terms of high lead levels.

Both German Castrol 0w30 and RLI 10w30 SHP-HD reduced those lead levels. Some of those levels may have been due to fuel dilution. Nothing alarming, but higher than I wanted, fuel dilution-wise.

If SOPUS is willing to enter into an "ask and answer" session on BITOG, why not Mobil? I'd love to know why the lead readings are so high (in my engines with my OCIs) using (or used to use long ago) M-1.


That's not the type of post I was referring to and you know that.

I SPECIFICALLY stated SINGLE UOA on an oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

Not only that, but there are those who profess that they do "get" and understand it.... Yet will be in numerous threads posting the "value" of them for comparing oils against one another; condemning one oil whilst praising another based on a single sample....etc.


Me?


I've caught you doing it a couple times

But you are also using Terry, and have used his services in the past. That's a bit different when that is the data being referenced, since it has professional interpretation.

Same with the guy AJ quoted. He trended.... didn't like the results (was advised that the results were worrisome) and changed, and got better ones. That's using the "tool" more to it's intended purpose. Not fretting over 5-10ppm of iron on a used oil analysis or two; especially when jumping from oil to oil like the British colonizing continents during the 1800's and trying to draw "conclusions" based on these single data points.

 

[buster]

One other interesting tid bit, the "Extended Life" oil they talk about in the PDF, contains 55% more seal swell additives. This may be the case for Mobil 1 High Mileage oil. Mobil 1 5w30 High Mileage has worked well for my brother's Toyota V6 that now has 240,000 on it using nothing but Mobil 1. It stopped a leak.

 

[robertcope]

This was a great presentation that just leads me to believe that my decision to run Mobil 1 0W40 in my cars was the right one. It seems like all of the folks who have concerns about the new formulation can relax now. I'm sure that won't happen, but as they say, you can lead a horse to water... or something.

robert

 

[BBDartCA]

Here is the pending XOM patent on this base oil, has a good comparison to PAO as well. http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=PdOkAAAAEBAJ