Mobil 1 - Is a higher end Synthetic

[Art_Vandelay]

Let's forget about boutique oil such as Amsoil, Redline, Schaeffers or even Royal Purple for this conversation. Limiting this instead to OTC oils, that sell in volume and are widely available.

Believe it or not I don't want to start a war. Wars are inevitable though so who cares about the disclaimer. Some of what I'm going to say is fact. Some of it my opinion or intuition. I'd like to hear your opinion. As I have said once before, I am just as happy being wrong as being right.

Please don't start with the, "don't worry about what it is made from only worry about how it performs," stuff. That is nothing but a roadblock to productive conversation. This website is devoted to analysis. That means we care what something is made of more than anyone else for God sake.

I contend, based on my reading here, that Mobil 1 is a higher end Synthetic as compared to Group III primary based oils. Examples of such are:

- Pennzoil Platinum
- Kendal GT-1
- Valvoline Synpower
- Q horse, torque,etc
- Castrol Syntec (except GC 0W-30)
- And any others

It seems likely that Mobil 1 is not just a Group III oil. Probably a product of Group III and IV basestock (sometimes V) in most formulations. That's if we believe the foreign MSDS data that floats around. But why shouldn't we believe it?

Surely it costs more to produce than the Group III's. Simply because it contains superior ingredients. Does that make it better? Probably. Dollar for dollar (using only Walmart Pricing)it is probably the best oil you can buy. If you are thinking of going beyond conventional.

For the sake of this conversation let's pretend that we could place equivalent additive packages into all the Group IIIs as well as the Mobil 1. It doesn't matter that we can't. Just eliminate that variable to foster the conversation. This keeps it in context.

Of course I'm interested in your opinions. In particular:

Do you agree that it is more costly to produce?

Do you think the Group IV and V addition makes it a better product?

With the benefits of Group III synthetic vs. modern Conventional very slim and growing slimmer all the time. Doesn't it make sense, if you wish to go synthetic, to put the extra money towards Mobil 1? Since it at least buys you something extra.

 

[c3po]

WWIII

 

[greenaccord02]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Do you think the Group IV and V addition makes it a better product?

With the benefits of Group III synthetic vs. modern Conventional very slim and growing slimmer all the time. Doesn't it make sense, if you wish to go synthetic, to put the extra money towards Mobil 1? Since it at least buys you something extra.


No.

Now, let me grab a beer and some peanuts and break out my lawnchair. This is going to be WWIII just like C3PO said.

 

[vinu_neuro]

It'd probably be a good idea if you did some reading before creating threads like this that will go no where.

 

[Kruse]

I'm not sure why Mobil is paying anybody for advertising when they have posts like this.

 

[StevieC]

Oh boy.

 

[Johnny]

Alright Art, I will agree with you. Yes, yes, yes, lord forgive me yes.

I gave up beer, but I do have my ice tea, moon pie, and lawn chair ready to go.

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
It'd probably be a good idea if you did some reading before creating threads like this that will go no where.


He's read plenty, and believe me it will go somewhere.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay

Do you agree that it is more costly to produce?

Without seeing actual costs, it's hard to say. For a company like XOM that produces it in high quantities, it may not be.
For others, who have to buy it from XOM, it may be.

Quote:

Do you think the Group IV and V addition makes it a better product?

Possibly. But I think a better question would be: Do you think that your engine requires such a better product? If there are a multitude of oils out there that are good enough, why should I pay extra for a "better product" of which benefits I do not necessarily require (such as super duper ultra low pour point)?.

Quote:

With the benefits of Group III synthetic vs. modern Conventional very slim and growing slimmer all the time. Doesn't it make sense, if you wish to go synthetic, to put the extra money towards Mobil 1? Since it at least buys you something extra.

Again, does your engine really need or benefit from that "something extra"? If not, then no.

We really need to separate the marketing from the true benefits. For example, the claim that some oil offers "8X less wear" is not very useful to me. 8x less than almost nothing is still almost nothing. The engine will still outlast the rest of the car, or I may not want to keep the car long enough to find out.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Its good entertainment watching the koolaid drinkers post.

I really love the one liners...

Look all the "press" has not stopped EOM from proving the "press" wrong so why should some thread like this stop them.

They love threads that start like this one!

Here we go.......

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay

Do you agree that it is more costly to produce?

Without seeing actual costs, it's hard to say. For a company like XOM that produces it in high quantities, it may not be.
For others, who have to buy it from XOM, it may be.

Quote:

Do you think the Group IV and V addition makes it a better product?

Possibly. But I think a better question would be: Do you think that your engine requires such a better product? If there are a multitude of oils out there that are good enough, why should I pay extra for a "better product" of which benefits I do not necessarily require (such as super duper ultra low pour point)?.

Quote:

With the benefits of Group III synthetic vs. modern Conventional very slim and growing slimmer all the time. Doesn't it make sense, if you wish to go synthetic, to put the extra money towards Mobil 1? Since it at least buys you something extra.

Again, does your engine really need or benefits from that "something extra"? If not, then no.

We really need to separate the marketing from the true benefits. For example, the claim that some oil offers "8X less wear" is not very useful to me. 8x less than almost nothing is still almost nothing. The engine will still outlast the rest of the car, or I may not want to keep the car long enough to find out.


NICE POST!

 

[edhackett]

Mobil 1 bought me higher wear numbers in UOA due to its poor handling of fuel dilution and 2.5 times the consumption of any other oil used in that particular engine.

Those are things I'd just as soon not pay extra for.

Ed

 

[sicko]

I think any of the oils you listed there, along with proper maintenance and OCI, will allow the engine to out live the car body.

Although I don't have any proof, I do believe that M1 has more group IV content then other OTC synthetics. But does that make it a better product? Well that starts getting into the area of how it actually performs and you specifically did not want to get into such a discussion.

But since the question leads to it, I'll simply ask my own question. Using Walmart prices, you can get 5 quarts of M1 for a cost that is 10% more then 5 quarts of PP, do you believe that M1 gives 10% better protection?

Obviously that isn't a clear cut question b/c the conditions would also have to be taken into account, things like OCI duration could sway someone one way or another. Though some might find the question harder to answer now, it might've been easier for them to answer back when the price difference between the two was larger. For me, based on my vehicle, my usage, and my OCI, I don't believe M1 gives 10% better protection.

In an effort to reach full disclosure, I will say that although i've never used it before I think M1 is an excellent product and I haven't seen any major reason to doubt its ability to protect a car engine. That's why I recently used the available rebates to purchase some M1 0w-30 to use this winter. While I've seen no real reasons to discredit M1 quality as a lubricant, I previously haven't used it because I believe there are better values available. The available rebates gave M1 a better value (as perceived by me) which is why I picked up a few OCI worth to give it a try. I somewhat recently got a new car, so this will give me a chance to see how well it likes M1 as I try to find an oil that works best with its engine

 

[ericthepig]

Art, you're overly concerned with the details, when you really just need to be concerned with how the oil performs. On that note, I'd suggest Schaeffer 7000 line.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay

Please don't start with the, "don't worry about what it is made from only worry about how it performs," stuff. That is nothing but a roadblock to productive conversation.

Actually, I would consider you trying to artificially limit the scope of the discussion to be a "roadblock to productive conversation."

In the end, I judge whether something is worth paying for by the benefits which it provides me, not necessarily by how it was made. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own judgment, but please don't expect a public forum to blindly follow your train of thought and directions.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay

Please don't start with the, "don't worry about what it is made from only worry about how it performs," stuff. That is nothing but a roadblock to productive conversation.

Actually, I would consider you trying to artificially limit the scope of the discussion to be a "roadblock to productive conversation."

In the end, I judge whether something is worth paying for by the benefits which it provides me, not necessarily by how it was made. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own judgment, but please don't expect a public forum to blindly follow your train of thought and directions.


You entirely misunderstand what I am saying there. I've read several of your posts and given your intellect I'm surprised that is the case.

When someone brings up conventional vs. synthetic, nobody ever says, "just worry about how it performs." I put it that way so this conversation could enjoy the same right of way.

I see no reason for you taking offense to it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
You entirely misunderstand what I am saying there. I've read several of your posts and given your intellect I'm surprised that is the case.

Maybe I did misunderstand. Whether you intended it or not, your post appears so controversial and so Mobil 1-centered, that it may be hard for most to get past it, myself included.

Quote:

I see no reason for you taking offense to it.

I'm not offended. Your post did not make me like/hate M1 more/less. I guess I am just not agreeing with you that one should be making oil purchase decision based on how it is made. Or that it's justified for me to pay more for something just because it is made of more expensive components (if true) when I don't see a measurable benefit. That's all.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
You entirely misunderstand what I am saying there. I've read several of your posts and given your intellect I'm surprised that is the case.

Maybe I did misunderstand. Whether you intended it or not, your post appears so controversial and so Mobil 1-centered, that it may be hard for most to get past it, myself included.


I have never run Mobil 1 in my life as of yet. It seems centered towards it because my own guess is that it is superior for the reasons I stated.

When I asked to pretend the additive package is equivalent that is only so as to better compare the point of my argument. That if all else is equal Mobil 1 would outperform the others.

In the real world if PP were to do better than a same weight Mobil 1 due to its add pack, I'm willing to believe that. That is a different topic though. All I am trying to do is keep the thread on topic.

It is not my intention to Boss people around. I simply wanted an on topic thread that doesn't veer all over the place.

 

[FastSUV]

I would semi-agree with your logic that M1 is probably one of the best oils off the wal-mart shelf...however, one thing this site has also done is give me more confidence in GP-III syns & dinos, and especially blends (since u get best of both worlds).

I have even switched to dino gear oil over RP...this site has convinced me that modern dino is better than we thought it was if used at an appropriate OCI & service level.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Alright Art, I will agree with you. Yes, yes, yes, lord forgive me yes.


An agreement from a Pennzoil man. Now that says something.