Mobil 1 does contain Group III
- Thread starter buster
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I for one am getting tired of the whole group argument. M1 is a truly great oil. Sure, like all oils, let's see if we can find out what makes it tick. But to make a bold thumbs down, because the manufacturer/designer make a decision to use some of one group or another...well, Buster, maybe I'm reading too much into this.....
Doesn't the GIII make for better solvency?
I thought that's where the old Tri-Synthetic label came from. GrpIII + PAO + esters...
Patman
Staff member
I agree, just like I said on the GC thread, it doesn't matter what the base oil is if the oil performs. Mobil 1 has proven itself to be able to handle very long drains, which is typically something group 3 oils cannot quite acheive.
No .
Tri-Syn was PAO + esters + alkylated aromatics. The old Mobil 1 web site (unlike the new one) explained the components of Mobil 1 quite well.quote:
Originally posted by jsharp:
I thought that's where the old Tri-Synthetic label came from. GrpIII + PAO + esters...
Im sure I posted this already, but here's the response I got back from Castrol a few months ago:
Btw, its a long post!!!!
"You may have seen an article by Patrick Bedard in the November 2000 issue of Car & Driver or his article on-line, which, unfortunately, makes several incorrect and misleading statements about Castrol SYNTEC. Mr. Bedard’s article rehashes a five year old controversy between Castrol and a major competitor.
In 1998, Castrol upgraded SYNTEC, by switching to a new and specially engineered hydroisomerized base stock. Before we made the change, we conducted an extensive proprietary testing program that proved that the new hydroisomerized base stock allowed us to blend a synthetic product that was superior to the old PAO base stock formula. This was challenged by a competitor who was a major manufacturer of PAO base stock, before the NAD (National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau). This resulted in a rejection of our competitor’s position when the NAD, relying on industry standards and the extensive expert testimony of leading scientists here and in Europe, completely upheld our position. After months of study, the NAD agreed that SYNTEC is fully synthetic. As the NAD found, the assumption of our competitor that there is only one way to formulate a synthetic motor oil is wrong. No two conventional motor oils, synthetic blends or full synthetic motor oils are formulated exactly the same way. Motor oil manufacturers have different formulation philosophies: We are proud to say that Castrol’s philosophy is one of continual innovation, leading-edge technology, and ultimate performance. Please see as follows some of the significant mistakes included in the article
1. SYNTEC is made with “petroleum base stock”
SYNTEC is not made with petroleum base stock. Just as PAO is derived from complex chemical reactions starting with ethylene gas, SYNTEC’s base stock is synthesized using sophisticated processes and chemical reactions. The molecular structures of the starting compounds are fundamentally altered to produce a fluid with vastly improved properties capable of attaining the highest levels of formulated synthetic lubricant performance.
2. PAO results in a more stable fluid, with low temperature flow, and resistance to boiling off and oxidation
The inference here is that SYNTEC’s base stock does not provide these properties, which it does. SYNTEC’s performance standards in these areas is unsurpassed. It meets the toughest industry standards.
3. SYNTEC’s base stock costs half as much as the competitor’s
Mr. Bedard quotes a statement from Lubricants World that does not pertain to the base stock Castrol buys for SYNTEC. In truth, Mr. Bedard has absolutely no information about the production costs of our product. SYNTEC’s formulation is made of the highest quality synthetic base oils, plus very specific additives, which together deliver the superior qualities consumer’s look for in synthetic oils.
4. The industry credentials listed on SYNTEC’s label are “beside the point for U.S passenger cars”
The list of industry credentials that SYNTEC passes are extremely relevant to the ultimate quality of the oil, and thus the advanced protection provided to SYNTEC users. These credentials are further evidence that SYNTEC provides the highest level of performance available. SYNTEC is engineered to surpass the minimum performance levels specified by U.S auto makers for the mass market.
5. The only performance claim that would “have real meaning” for consumers is extended oil life
Castrol has extensive experience with the real needs of the motor oil consumer. Consumers continue to tell us that the most important things they are looking for are advanced performance and protection for their engines – precisely the package SYNTEC delivers.
6. The statement on the SYNTEC label, that SYNTEC “exceeds” industry standards does not indicate that it also meets them.
A product that “exceeds” a standard meets it, and that’s the case with SYNTEC. We would never claim to exceed any industry standards that we did not actually meet. Castrol not only continues to stand by the high quality of the SYNTEC formula, but also the high quality of the relationship we have with our consumers.
The issues that Mr. Bedard attempts to raise were fully considered – and resolved in our favor – after a full hearing before the NAD. We regret that Mr. Bedard ignored or misunderstood that record and chose not to work with Castrol to get the real story. We trust that you and other knowledgeable consumers will not be misled by his article. Also in the June 2000 issue of Car & Driver, Mr. Bedard offered the following retraction – “My November column included a quote about synthetic oil that “debuted with miraculous demonstrations of it’s protection” but actually caused premature engine wear. Car and Driver has learned that this criticism of the product is completely untrue. The magazine and I regret the error.”
Also, as to our German made 0w-30 product, Castrol produces and utilize formulas from various sources, including North America and Europe depending on the product, performance and component sourcing. Products may vary in raw materials as a result of the regional production facility. However, the end performance met whether API or ACEA, is still the same. Formulations meeting European standards can be sourced from the US or Europe. It all comes down the most efficient way to supply the product to market taking into consideration development and supply chain logistics. The performance specifications on the bottle may read differently as American Standard testing varies from European testing.
Formulations meeting European standards can be sourced from the US or Europe. It all comes down the most efficient way to supply the product to market taking into consideration development and supply chain logistics.
The decision for 0W-30 to be sourced from Germany is based upon the most efficient supply logistics. Both the SLX 0w-30 formula produced in Germany and the Castrol SYNTEC 0w-30 formula produced in North America meet the same performance specifications."
Castrol Consumer Relations
1-800-462-0835
[email protected]
Btw, its a long post!!!!
"You may have seen an article by Patrick Bedard in the November 2000 issue of Car & Driver or his article on-line, which, unfortunately, makes several incorrect and misleading statements about Castrol SYNTEC. Mr. Bedard’s article rehashes a five year old controversy between Castrol and a major competitor.
In 1998, Castrol upgraded SYNTEC, by switching to a new and specially engineered hydroisomerized base stock. Before we made the change, we conducted an extensive proprietary testing program that proved that the new hydroisomerized base stock allowed us to blend a synthetic product that was superior to the old PAO base stock formula. This was challenged by a competitor who was a major manufacturer of PAO base stock, before the NAD (National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau). This resulted in a rejection of our competitor’s position when the NAD, relying on industry standards and the extensive expert testimony of leading scientists here and in Europe, completely upheld our position. After months of study, the NAD agreed that SYNTEC is fully synthetic. As the NAD found, the assumption of our competitor that there is only one way to formulate a synthetic motor oil is wrong. No two conventional motor oils, synthetic blends or full synthetic motor oils are formulated exactly the same way. Motor oil manufacturers have different formulation philosophies: We are proud to say that Castrol’s philosophy is one of continual innovation, leading-edge technology, and ultimate performance. Please see as follows some of the significant mistakes included in the article
1. SYNTEC is made with “petroleum base stock”
SYNTEC is not made with petroleum base stock. Just as PAO is derived from complex chemical reactions starting with ethylene gas, SYNTEC’s base stock is synthesized using sophisticated processes and chemical reactions. The molecular structures of the starting compounds are fundamentally altered to produce a fluid with vastly improved properties capable of attaining the highest levels of formulated synthetic lubricant performance.
2. PAO results in a more stable fluid, with low temperature flow, and resistance to boiling off and oxidation
The inference here is that SYNTEC’s base stock does not provide these properties, which it does. SYNTEC’s performance standards in these areas is unsurpassed. It meets the toughest industry standards.
3. SYNTEC’s base stock costs half as much as the competitor’s
Mr. Bedard quotes a statement from Lubricants World that does not pertain to the base stock Castrol buys for SYNTEC. In truth, Mr. Bedard has absolutely no information about the production costs of our product. SYNTEC’s formulation is made of the highest quality synthetic base oils, plus very specific additives, which together deliver the superior qualities consumer’s look for in synthetic oils.
4. The industry credentials listed on SYNTEC’s label are “beside the point for U.S passenger cars”
The list of industry credentials that SYNTEC passes are extremely relevant to the ultimate quality of the oil, and thus the advanced protection provided to SYNTEC users. These credentials are further evidence that SYNTEC provides the highest level of performance available. SYNTEC is engineered to surpass the minimum performance levels specified by U.S auto makers for the mass market.
5. The only performance claim that would “have real meaning” for consumers is extended oil life
Castrol has extensive experience with the real needs of the motor oil consumer. Consumers continue to tell us that the most important things they are looking for are advanced performance and protection for their engines – precisely the package SYNTEC delivers.
6. The statement on the SYNTEC label, that SYNTEC “exceeds” industry standards does not indicate that it also meets them.
A product that “exceeds” a standard meets it, and that’s the case with SYNTEC. We would never claim to exceed any industry standards that we did not actually meet. Castrol not only continues to stand by the high quality of the SYNTEC formula, but also the high quality of the relationship we have with our consumers.
The issues that Mr. Bedard attempts to raise were fully considered – and resolved in our favor – after a full hearing before the NAD. We regret that Mr. Bedard ignored or misunderstood that record and chose not to work with Castrol to get the real story. We trust that you and other knowledgeable consumers will not be misled by his article. Also in the June 2000 issue of Car & Driver, Mr. Bedard offered the following retraction – “My November column included a quote about synthetic oil that “debuted with miraculous demonstrations of it’s protection” but actually caused premature engine wear. Car and Driver has learned that this criticism of the product is completely untrue. The magazine and I regret the error.”
Also, as to our German made 0w-30 product, Castrol produces and utilize formulas from various sources, including North America and Europe depending on the product, performance and component sourcing. Products may vary in raw materials as a result of the regional production facility. However, the end performance met whether API or ACEA, is still the same. Formulations meeting European standards can be sourced from the US or Europe. It all comes down the most efficient way to supply the product to market taking into consideration development and supply chain logistics. The performance specifications on the bottle may read differently as American Standard testing varies from European testing.
Formulations meeting European standards can be sourced from the US or Europe. It all comes down the most efficient way to supply the product to market taking into consideration development and supply chain logistics.
The decision for 0W-30 to be sourced from Germany is based upon the most efficient supply logistics. Both the SLX 0w-30 formula produced in Germany and the Castrol SYNTEC 0w-30 formula produced in North America meet the same performance specifications."
Castrol Consumer Relations
1-800-462-0835
[email protected]
I think the real issue here is plainly obvious: Who has the cooler looking bottle. I mean, c'mon! No one's going to put an inferior product in really cool packaging.
Hondaguy, here's a translation of Castrol' response.
1. Our synthetic isn't made from "petroleum base stacks" it's made from "modified petroleum base stocks"
2. SYNTEC’s performance standards meet the toughest industry standards. Unfortunately, some of our competition greatly exceeds those standards.
3. You can't prove our base stocks are cheaper and we aren't going to provied the information to confirm it.
4. SYNTEC is engineered to surpass the minimum performance levels specified by U.S auto makers for the mass market. We aim low and hit our target.
5. Our standards are based on focus groups.
1. Our synthetic isn't made from "petroleum base stacks" it's made from "modified petroleum base stocks"
2. SYNTEC’s performance standards meet the toughest industry standards. Unfortunately, some of our competition greatly exceeds those standards.
3. You can't prove our base stocks are cheaper and we aren't going to provied the information to confirm it.
4. SYNTEC is engineered to surpass the minimum performance levels specified by U.S auto makers for the mass market. We aim low and hit our target.
5. Our standards are based on focus groups.
"as a lot of others have said, as long as the oil is working I don't see a problem either way. A lot of people here are using GC with good results and all we have is speculation about it's makeup."
THIS IS FUNNIER THEN **** .. EVERYONE BUSTED SYNTEC OH NO, NOT A GOOD OIL, NOT A REAL SYNTHETIC. THATS WHAT I ALWAYS SAID. SO WHAT? IF CASTROL SYNTEC PROTECS. WHAT DO YOU CARE HOW THEY MAKE IT....
THIS IS TOOOO FUNNY. WELL I GOT MY MOBIL DELVAC FOR USING IN ANONTHER WEEK OR TWO. HAVE FUN SYNTHETIC BOYS.
THIS IS FUNNIER THEN **** .. EVERYONE BUSTED SYNTEC OH NO, NOT A GOOD OIL, NOT A REAL SYNTHETIC. THATS WHAT I ALWAYS SAID. SO WHAT? IF CASTROL SYNTEC PROTECS. WHAT DO YOU CARE HOW THEY MAKE IT....
THIS IS TOOOO FUNNY. WELL I GOT MY MOBIL DELVAC FOR USING IN ANONTHER WEEK OR TWO. HAVE FUN SYNTHETIC BOYS.
MolaKule
Staff member
Never heard of using a mineral oil to adjust the viscosity of a synthetic, since mineral oils have narrow VIS ranges, or low VII's compared to synthesized oils.
Usually it's the other way around.
Standard practice, or as they say, "in the art," is to use PAO 4/6 combos to adjust the viscosity of Group I-III oils in the range of 0W20 to 10W40.
Excluding the Syntec 0w-30 the rest of the Syntec line-up is group III , Slack Wax and PAO and an Ester . Quite a brew there and Slax Wax costs more than hydroisomerized group III .It also uses a detergent I've never heard of and I forget now what it's called or I would post it .
The Syntec is not your Fathers Oldsmobile
Have I told anyone lately how much I like the Mobil Supersyn 0w-40
The Syntec is not your Fathers Oldsmobile
Have I told anyone lately how much I like the Mobil Supersyn 0w-40
There has been an obvious adjustment to the Mobil SS 30wt formulations .
The first 5 and 10w-30's were thinning out but now they are some stay in grade stuff for the most part .
I always wondered if they were using a dino as the carrier oil for the additive pack early on .
There are a couple of other Pao lubes available that do .
The first 5 and 10w-30's were thinning out but now they are some stay in grade stuff for the most part .
I always wondered if they were using a dino as the carrier oil for the additive pack early on .
There are a couple of other Pao lubes available that do .
Castrol Consumer Relations
1-800-462-0835
[email protected]
Well, this statement contradicts everything I've ever read about "German Castrol" on this board!
[ March 22, 2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Lubricious ]
1-800-462-0835
[email protected]
Well, this statement contradicts everything I've ever read about "German Castrol" on this board!
[ March 22, 2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Lubricious ]
Yes, it also contradicts what's on the bottle. The old US stuff wasn't A3 rated was it?
Patman
Staff member
The strange thing about this is that we've always come to believe that Mobil 1 was the same formulation worldwide. Odd to find out that the US version is PAO/ester while the European version uses some group 3. You'd expect it to be the other way around.
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