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Can he still send PMs, too?
Mobil 1 and grp III continued.
- Thread starter Bryanccfshr
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maybe I'll post my coments on that forum too.
bruce
bruce
It seems to me that the bottom line here is "price". Mobil has marketed itself as a "superior oil" based on the fact that it is 100% synthetic. "Performance" is not the issue. The argument that Group III's are just as good as a 100% synthetic is moot. Those who "pay" for a 100% synthetic are expecting an edge. To drop to a Grp III and not tell the public is to deceive them. Grp III's cost less to produce. Therefore, charge a Grp III price; not a "100% synthetic" price. I am guessing a well informed consumer (especially a BITOG member) would be smart enough to know that they are getting a comparable oil by swithing to another Grp III brand at a lesser price than Mobil 1 and therefore a better value for the buck.
So this is all a nefarious plot by Hatco?
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Oh brother.The guy needs to come out of retirement so he'll have something to do besides blindly support ExxonMobil.
The guy's a wanker.
After reading that part about his talk with Alex Kaufman, I'd say he's more than a 'wanker', he's a 'total wanker' and 'tosspot'.
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Oh brother.The guy needs to come out of retirement so he'll have something to do besides blindly support ExxonMobil.
The guy's a wanker.
After reading that part about his talk with Alex Kaufman, I'd say he's more than a 'wanker', he's a 'total wanker'.
OMG!! That guy distorted the truth & what TomNJ did so badly.
His vigilante attacks on Tom are uncalled for. He has lost all creditability.
I guess speaking in cryptic innuendo is part of the ExxonMobil DNA.
I have a suggestion for everyone.
This gentleman's special agenda was exposed in his first ten posts, when he revealed his intimate association with EM. It is apparent that this individual is on a personal crusade to attack Tom Schaefer and discourage folks like him from speaking out in the future. He is also indirectly attacking this forum and all of us.
This is a case of credibility assassination, laced with enough psudo facts to make it half-believable to onlookers. He's now going about the internet doing it, and Tom deserves better than this.
I think, to the extent that we can do so, we should all go to these other places where the gentleman now frequents, and respond to these outrageous assertions.
We should do this if only for Tom's sake, who we all know merely asserted the emperor's lack of clothes as a matter of fact.
This gentleman's special agenda was exposed in his first ten posts, when he revealed his intimate association with EM. It is apparent that this individual is on a personal crusade to attack Tom Schaefer and discourage folks like him from speaking out in the future. He is also indirectly attacking this forum and all of us.
This is a case of credibility assassination, laced with enough psudo facts to make it half-believable to onlookers. He's now going about the internet doing it, and Tom deserves better than this.
I think, to the extent that we can do so, we should all go to these other places where the gentleman now frequents, and respond to these outrageous assertions.
We should do this if only for Tom's sake, who we all know merely asserted the emperor's lack of clothes as a matter of fact.
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Off-topic but... this post has helped me to add some new words to my vocabulary.
I may use 'wanker' and 'tosspot' at dinner over Thanksgiving.
Honey, will you please pass the tosspot? And I'd certainly like another serving of wanker, if you don't mind.
I may use 'wanker' and 'tosspot' at dinner over Thanksgiving.
Honey, will you please pass the tosspot? And I'd certainly like another serving of wanker, if you don't mind.
talk about protecting your retirement nestegg at XOM....
Micky_M thru a suitcase nuke at Tom NJ via Hatco ownership and management
pure revenge with no scientific data to back Micky up
Micky_M thru a suitcase nuke at Tom NJ via Hatco ownership and management
pure revenge with no scientific data to back Micky up
Perhaps we should all also contact Hatco management as well to express our support for Tom and our appreciation of his unbiased honesty.
If we want quality people like Tom Schaefer to contribute here in the future, then we have to stand up for them when the corporate lackeys and cheerleaders attack them like this.
So here's your chance to stand up for Tom and for BITOG as independent voices.
If we want quality people like Tom Schaefer to contribute here in the future, then we have to stand up for them when the corporate lackeys and cheerleaders attack them like this.
So here's your chance to stand up for Tom and for BITOG as independent voices.
That's a nice thought
Every major and minor lubricant formulator is interested in this board.
XOM's Mickey's post elsewhere shows that. Internet is cheap ad. BITOG is the focal point for automotive lube commentary, accurate or not.
When retired employees or even active marketing VP's participate here it is instructive ! True, many of the participants that post the most here add to a irritating noise level but this is part of the format tradeoff to cheap ad.
If those that are brand loyalists want balanced exposure here then back up your product claims and marketing with enough science to satisfy, if not cry at the other websites where you will not be held accountable because the lack of technical understanding.
Earlier this year I was training a major lube makers marketing folks about basic lube technology and lube analysis, BITOG was a GOTO spot for them AND they were looking for technically proficient enough BITOG posters to be shills for their products.
Once again BITOG'ers don't be surprised by the attention.
As long as BITOG does no harm to a products proprietary info, honesty and disclosure is a good thing.
I distrust everyone and keep my mouth tightly clamped when it comes to formulas, however since I work for competing entities as a balanced analysis source it is sure interesting to observe these exchanges.
Just what this site was designed to do.
XOM's Mickey's post elsewhere shows that. Internet is cheap ad. BITOG is the focal point for automotive lube commentary, accurate or not.
When retired employees or even active marketing VP's participate here it is instructive ! True, many of the participants that post the most here add to a irritating noise level but this is part of the format tradeoff to cheap ad.
If those that are brand loyalists want balanced exposure here then back up your product claims and marketing with enough science to satisfy, if not cry at the other websites where you will not be held accountable because the lack of technical understanding.
Earlier this year I was training a major lube makers marketing folks about basic lube technology and lube analysis, BITOG was a GOTO spot for them AND they were looking for technically proficient enough BITOG posters to be shills for their products.
Once again BITOG'ers don't be surprised by the attention.
As long as BITOG does no harm to a products proprietary info, honesty and disclosure is a good thing.
I distrust everyone and keep my mouth tightly clamped when it comes to formulas, however since I work for competing entities as a balanced analysis source it is sure interesting to observe these exchanges.
Just what this site was designed to do.
BTW I respect Mickey and Tom, like most of you they are employees and stakeholders in companies that may compete. So what? That is the American way. Allow the discourse between them and no need to heavy hand anyone AS LONG as no HARM is done to proprietary formulations.
Nicely put Terry.
But when someone like Tom is willing to share legitimate technical findings, he needs to be protected from the corporate assassins lurking in the wings.
Otherwise, the chilling effect on substantive professional contribution is total and all we will have here is noise.
But when someone like Tom is willing to share legitimate technical findings, he needs to be protected from the corporate assassins lurking in the wings.
Otherwise, the chilling effect on substantive professional contribution is total and all we will have here is noise.
Terry, being on the inside of the business you may know Tom well enough to respect him for something, but his obsfucation of the issues and childish tattle tale behavior doesn't get him any respect from me, or I suspect most others here.
As a representative of EOM, he is pretty pathetic.
I bet he really came out of his shell.
BTW, did anyone save the text of his post he put on TDI forums since it has been removed before I could save it?
BTW, did anyone save the text of his post he put on TDI forums since it has been removed before I could save it?
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Honestly when I saw Tom share his results I was a bit surprised.
#1 that he could afford to do it for free.
#2 that he would be so publcily forthcoming.
#3 the results are not substantiated by an independent source.
To be fair it looks as if he was whipping off some GC work for a excited BITOG constituency that really has no clue how competitive this business is!
When we worked Zoil it was done on a paid for by owner basis, coded, and not released to the public for exactly the reasons I shared above. SOME of you cannot keep a secret and share (unauthorized)amongst yourselves,( imagine that
AND I did not want to harm the formulator of the ZOil. Another reason we did NOT disclose the total formula.
XS650, I think you mean Mickey ? Hey, he is human and is irritated by his paycheck( retirement check) threatened and a lack of substantiated data. Comnon response when you threaten a guys long time beliefs and pocketbook. Check out some of my defence of Frank Miller and Auto-RX years ago here when I perceived that people were attacking my friend unfairly. (He was suffering from cancer treatment too).
The really pathetic example is the XOM self designated rep who didn't even know what the add pack was in the DC lubes and could not properly interpret lab results. "CLS" does not mean you can interpret UOA properly or formulate lubricants. That anyone would buy a testing service from him is AMAZING. I can't imagine XOM selected him as a BITOG spokesperson but hey in the larger corporations the left hand forgets or ignores the right hand many times.
My main point is to trust,listen to those who have proven honest and indifferent to brand over the years. Those who get personal quickly have a dog somewhere in the fight OR have had their feelings hurt.
I say allow Mickey back in and see if XOM will add anything helpful to the discussion, allowing a chance to redeem himself and MAYBE XOM in the eyes of BITOG participants.
I would be happy to act as an independent analyst/voice and share what we are allowed in light of any of these questions if properly compensated.
Terry
#1 that he could afford to do it for free.
#2 that he would be so publcily forthcoming.
#3 the results are not substantiated by an independent source.
To be fair it looks as if he was whipping off some GC work for a excited BITOG constituency that really has no clue how competitive this business is!
When we worked Zoil it was done on a paid for by owner basis, coded, and not released to the public for exactly the reasons I shared above. SOME of you cannot keep a secret and share (unauthorized)amongst yourselves,( imagine that
XS650, I think you mean Mickey ? Hey, he is human and is irritated by his paycheck( retirement check) threatened and a lack of substantiated data. Comnon response when you threaten a guys long time beliefs and pocketbook. Check out some of my defence of Frank Miller and Auto-RX years ago here when I perceived that people were attacking my friend unfairly. (He was suffering from cancer treatment too).
The really pathetic example is the XOM self designated rep who didn't even know what the add pack was in the DC lubes and could not properly interpret lab results. "CLS" does not mean you can interpret UOA properly or formulate lubricants. That anyone would buy a testing service from him is AMAZING. I can't imagine XOM selected him as a BITOG spokesperson but hey in the larger corporations the left hand forgets or ignores the right hand many times.
My main point is to trust,listen to those who have proven honest and indifferent to brand over the years. Those who get personal quickly have a dog somewhere in the fight OR have had their feelings hurt.
I say allow Mickey back in and see if XOM will add anything helpful to the discussion, allowing a chance to redeem himself and MAYBE XOM in the eyes of BITOG participants.
I would be happy to act as an independent analyst/voice and share what we are allowed in light of any of these questions if properly compensated.
Terry
I contributed to the ZOil study. It's been suggested that we put money into the pot to put this issue to rest. I'm happy to contribute again. This back-and-forth has been entertaining the last week or so, but we still lack an independent, definitive answer. Terry, how should we proceed? Or, is this just too hot a potato?
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