Mobil 1 AFE 0w-30, 4k mi; '24 Ford Bronco 2.7L EB 11k mi

[CarbonSteel]

I think the OAI one is more accurate. The dipstick smells strongly of fuel when I check the oil. It is consistent with @CarbonSteel ’s results with this engine too.

I know that OAI (Polaris/Horizon) uses gas chromatography to measure fuel dilution, they are ISO 17025 certified, and use all of the latest ASTM testing methodologies.

Does SPEEDiagnostix use gas chromatography or a flame test like Blackstone does? If the latter, given the subjectivity of the results from a flame test, this is why there is such a variation in the results.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

I know that OAI (Polaris/Horizon) uses gas chromatography to measure fuel dilution, they are ISO 17025 certified, and use all of the latest ASTM testing methodologies.

Does SPEEDiagnostix use gas chromatography or a flame test like Blackstone does? If the latter, given the subjectivity of the results from a flame test, this is why there is such a variation in the results.

I thought they did use GC and it was why I was using them since my OAI/horizon kits took 6 months to arrive for some reason.

 

[CarbonSteel]

View attachment 257872

I thought they did use GC and it was why I was using them since my OAI/horizon kits took 6 months to arrive for some reason.

Not sure why there was such a discrepancy then, but I found nothing on the SPEEDiagnostix website about their ASTM or testing methods nor are the ISO 17025 certified. Polaris/Horizon (OAI) clearly lists theirs - https://www2.eoilreports.com/A2LA_2145-01

I buy my Polaris/Horizon (OAI) kits from Amsoil (https://www.amsoil.com/p/oil-analyzers-test-kit-non-postage-paid-oainppkit/) and never had an issue with delivery of the kits or any delays on the test results. They are $22.15 each with a preferred account which pays for itself in short order.

@Pablo can hook you up if interested.

 

[4WD]

I know that OAI (Polaris/Horizon) uses gas chromatography to measure fuel dilution, they are ISO 17025 certified, and use all of the latest ASTM testing methodologies.

Does SPEEDiagnostix use gas chromatography or a flame test like Blackstone does? If the latter, given the subjectivity of the results from a flame test, this is why there is such a variation in the results.

Howdy! 2001 Cherokee? Is this a project?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Howdy! 2001 Cherokee? Is this a project?

It was, but we finished it some time ago.

Thread '2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport (Father/Son Project)'

Jul 24, 2023

Long read (photos to follow soon), but gear heads may enjoy it:

Started a father/son project with my youngest a few weeks ago. I had bought him a new 2020 Challenger in the spring of 2021, but he went off to military college later that year and they would not allow him to have a car on campus until his junior year. I subsequently sold in the madness of COVID and made back all the money spent on it plus a bit more.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago and my neighbor across the street put a 2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport up for sale and was asking $3500. He disclosed an intermittent electrical issue...

• CarbonSteel
• Replies: 86
• Forum: Automotive General Topics

• 

 

[srfdude]

Having lived in Anchorage for +/- 20 years, I can state with certainty that temperatures in the timeframes indicated for the oil changes will vary widely.
Looking at sample dates, they range from July to end of December, progressively getting (much) colder. By December, dailies will range from -15 to30 typically. Thus the wide fluctuation in fuel dilution.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

The only fuel dilution of note was really in the one Oil Anaylzers/Horizon Sample and showed 3.3%. The speediagnostix from the same oil drain was 1.21%. Either SD reports fuel dilution low, horizon reports it high, or it’s all in the margin of error. Based on the other measurements I’m leaning strongly toward the first one. I do think I’m getting about 2-3% fuel dilution because the oil moves up on the dipstick .1-.2 quarts on a 6 quart sump shortly after an oil change and smell like gas.

 

[Javed]

Hey, do you think the fuel brought the viscosity down to 9.0?

 

[Javed]

Instead of doing two samples seconds apart, it might be better scientific practice to take a larger, single sample and then divvy it up between the two. Would this make a difference..... almost certainly not. But (for me) since I am playing mr scientist here taking samples and such, it would make me feel better knowing I reduced a variable. Totally inconsequential or not, it's something a weekend scientist can strive for. Ha.

Thank you for sharing this. I am interested to hear which report folks and you think is the more accurate one.

Is it rare on these motors to have zero fuel dilution?

Problem is how to find a clean container free of Silicon and other stuff? Can I wash a quart bottle with soap?

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Hey, do you think the fuel brought the viscosity down to 9.0?

Thread 'HPL Premium Plus PCEO 0w-30, 5k Mi.; '24 Ford Bronco, 2.7L, 20k Mi.; 3 lab UOA'

In addition the fuel dilution, I do think to some extent the VII broke down in the AFE 0w-30 and contributed to the AFE’s viscosity loss on my UOA’s with it. I say this because:

-With an even higher fuel dilution % (3.4% vs 2.8%) HPL PP PCEO 0w-30 had a higher viscosity.

-The HPL’s viscosity retention occurred despite the HPL having a slightly lower virgin viscosity (10.5 HPL vs 10.7 AFE). The HPL is advertised to use a VII that resists breakdown.

Now, I will caveat that by saying there isn’t enough data to make any definitive conclusions as this is probably all within the labs margin of error, or could’ve been induced by other variables. But it is all I have to go by. I will be gathering more UOA data but it will take years. I am running Valvoline VRP 5W-30 and HPL PP PCEO 0W-30 in parallel in two Broncos right now. The VRP I suspect will show similar viscosity numbers to the AFE in UOAs.

It’s also debatable if a < 1 cSt difference in viscosity would matter in any noticeable way in terms of maintenance and longevity over the life of the vehicle.

I was just using the AFE because it was the only 0w-30 with the Ford approval that was easily available and I live in a place that can get down to -30F in winter. I learned on BITOG that the Ford approval doesn’t really mean much and moved to the HPL.

 

[Javed]

Thread 'HPL Premium Plus PCEO 0w-30, 5k Mi.; '24 Ford Bronco, 2.7L, 20k Mi.; 3 lab UOA'

In addition the fuel dilution, I do think to some extent the VII broke down in the AFE 0w-30 and contributed to the AFE’s viscosity loss on my UOA’s with it. I say this because:

-With an even higher fuel dilution % (3.4% vs 2.8%) HPL PP PCEO 0w-30 had a higher viscosity.

-The HPL’s viscosity retention occurred despite the HPL having a slightly lower virgin viscosity (10.5 HPL vs 10.7 AFE). The HPL is advertised to use a VII that resists breakdown.

Now, I will caveat that by saying there isn’t enough data to make any definitive conclusions as this is probably all within the labs margin of error, or could’ve been induced by other variables. But it is all I have to go by. I will be gathering more UOA data but it will take years. I am running Valvoline VRP 5W-30 and HPL PP PCEO 0W-30 in parallel in two Broncos right now. The VRP I suspect will show similar viscosity numbers to the AFE in UOAs.

It’s also debatable if a < 1 cSt difference in viscosity would matter in any noticeable way in terms of maintenance and longevity over the life of the vehicle.

I was just using the AFE because it was the only 0w-30 with the Ford approval that was easily available and I live in a place that can get down to -30F in winter. I learned on BITOG that the Ford approval doesn’t really mean much and moved to the HPL.

Were the wear numbers the same on HPL and AFE?

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Were the wear numbers the same on HPL and AFE?

Ok, this data set is way to small to make any conclusions other than there isn’t much discernible difference in wear metals so far, but for entertainment only:

On the 29,016.3 miles of Speediagnostix UOA data on M1 AFE across 2 vehicles:
2.654 ppm iron per 1000 miles
On the very small single 5000 mile sample of Speediagnostix HPL data:
2.000 ppm iron per 1000 miles

If we use the the 7479 miles of Oil Analyzers (OA) M1:
1.871 ppm iron per 1000 miles
The single 5000 mile HPL sample with OA:
2.400 ppm iron per 1000 miles

Using all wear metals and not just iron with OA data:
M1 3.747 ppm per 1000 miles
HPL 3.400 ppm per 1000 miles

 

[Javed]

Ok, this data set is way to small to make any conclusions other than there isn’t much difference in wear metals so far, but for entertainment only:

On the 29,016.3 miles of Speediagnostix UOA data on M1 AFE across 2 vehicles:
2.654 ppm iron per 1000 miles

On the very small single 5000 mile sample of Speediagnostix HPL data:
2.000 ppm iron per 1000 miles

If we use the the 7479 miles of Oil Analyzers (OA) M1:
1.871 ppm iron per 1000 miles
The single 5000 mile HPL sample with OA:
2.400 ppm iron per 1000 miles

Using all wear metals and not just iron with OA data:
M1 3.747 ppm per 1000 miles
HPL 3.400 ppm per 1000 miles

Looks like HPL did better overall. By the way, I used Red Line 0W-20. Instead of thinning, it thickened, 9.0 to 9.4 after 1,800 miles One crazy oil. You should try Red Line 0W-30 or HPL Super Car 0W-30 next. Those two crazy oils don't shear unless fuel shears them.