So...are you going to continue with M1 or try another oil to see if the results differ?
Mobil 1 5W20, 8.7kmi, 2011 Honda Pilot AWD 15%MM
- Thread starter mhadden
- Start date
- Status
How is this engine different from the one Trav serviced at 5,000 mile intervals with synthetic? Newer version, with improved PCV system I hope?
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
How is this engine different from the one Trav serviced at 5,000 mile intervals with synthetic? Newer version, with improved PCV system I hope?
The newer engines run rich and fuel dilution is still a problem...
How is this engine different from the one Trav serviced at 5,000 mile intervals with synthetic? Newer version, with improved PCV system I hope?
The newer engines run rich and fuel dilution is still a problem...
Originally Posted By: zanzabar
I think the OLM on the newer Hondas is a bit optimistic. Our '09 Fit has shown some pretty beat up oil on the couple samples I ran (10-20% on the OLM). Wear metals weren't terrible, but oxidation and nitration were on the high side.
How many miles were you at down at those OLM % readings? Did the UOA show the oil in the correct viscosity range and was flash point still good, TBN still above 2.0 at least?
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
How is this engine different from the one Trav serviced at 5,000 mile intervals with synthetic? Newer version, with improved PCV system I hope?
The newer engines run rich and fuel dilution is still a problem...
So, shearing is now more of an issue as shown in this UOA?
I think the OLM on the newer Hondas is a bit optimistic. Our '09 Fit has shown some pretty beat up oil on the couple samples I ran (10-20% on the OLM). Wear metals weren't terrible, but oxidation and nitration were on the high side.
How many miles were you at down at those OLM % readings? Did the UOA show the oil in the correct viscosity range and was flash point still good, TBN still above 2.0 at least?
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
How is this engine different from the one Trav serviced at 5,000 mile intervals with synthetic? Newer version, with improved PCV system I hope?
The newer engines run rich and fuel dilution is still a problem...
So, shearing is now more of an issue as shown in this UOA?
Quote:
How many miles were you at down at those OLM % readings? Did the UOA show the oil in the correct viscosity range and was flash point still good, TBN still above 2.0 at least?
Actually, I probably overstated that. The way my wife drives with 35 mile one-way commutes 5 days a week gives our OLM about 10k miles to get to 15%. The last analysis I ran was at 8k on the oil (30% on the OLM) 44k on the car (the engine was finally broken in) and I got a solid analysis with low wear metals, minimal shearing, good flash point, and only moderately high ox/nit. No TBN on the analyses I ran though, sorry. That was with M1 5-20EP. So I'm comfortable following the OLM to 10% on this car from now on with a very solid synthetic oil, but probably wouldn't do it with a conventional. Keep in mind this is a 1.5L 4cyl - I'd have to say definitely don't go to 15% on these 6cyl Hondas, seems like I've read quite a few mediocre UOAs when pushing the OLM that far.
How many miles were you at down at those OLM % readings? Did the UOA show the oil in the correct viscosity range and was flash point still good, TBN still above 2.0 at least?
Actually, I probably overstated that. The way my wife drives with 35 mile one-way commutes 5 days a week gives our OLM about 10k miles to get to 15%. The last analysis I ran was at 8k on the oil (30% on the OLM) 44k on the car (the engine was finally broken in) and I got a solid analysis with low wear metals, minimal shearing, good flash point, and only moderately high ox/nit. No TBN on the analyses I ran though, sorry. That was with M1 5-20EP. So I'm comfortable following the OLM to 10% on this car from now on with a very solid synthetic oil, but probably wouldn't do it with a conventional. Keep in mind this is a 1.5L 4cyl - I'd have to say definitely don't go to 15% on these 6cyl Hondas, seems like I've read quite a few mediocre UOAs when pushing the OLM that far.
The unusual oil results for the Honda VCM V6s (excess consumption, fuel dilution etc.), seem to be related to the length of time it's run in Eco mode when two or three cylinders are shut down. So, highway miles are harder on the oil than city when the VCM is constantly cycling. Honda publicly announced modifications to all 2011 engines, apparently in an effort to mitigate the problems with this design. Specifically, Honda said they changed the oil control rings and applied a moly surfacing to the piston skirts. The latter explains the training the dealers received to insist that new car buyers leave the factory fill in until the MM hits 15%, typically 6-8,000 miles.
Our VCM is doing fine, although the UOA on the FF with 6300 miles was loaded with wear particles and TBN was down to 2.0. So, I would agree with the recommendation to change the FF at no more than 5,000. I'm sticking with Honda Genuine full syn 0W-20 and OE filters at least until the warranty is up.
Our VCM is doing fine, although the UOA on the FF with 6300 miles was loaded with wear particles and TBN was down to 2.0. So, I would agree with the recommendation to change the FF at no more than 5,000. I'm sticking with Honda Genuine full syn 0W-20 and OE filters at least until the warranty is up.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Our VCM is doing fine, although the UOA on the FF with 6300 miles was loaded with wear particles and TBN was down to 2.0. So, I would agree with the recommendation to change the FF at no more than 5,000. I'm sticking with Honda Genuine full syn 0W-20 and OE filters at least until the warranty is up.
x2. This is a good decision.
Our VCM is doing fine, although the UOA on the FF with 6300 miles was loaded with wear particles and TBN was down to 2.0. So, I would agree with the recommendation to change the FF at no more than 5,000. I'm sticking with Honda Genuine full syn 0W-20 and OE filters at least until the warranty is up.
x2. This is a good decision.
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30, as the oil blenders like to keep the xW-20 viscosities on the high side and the xW-30 viscosities on the low side.
It looks like your engine is wearing itself away very fast. I would use xW-40, such as Mobil 1 0W-40 or Shell Rotella 5W-40. xW-40 oils don't have the ILSAC (Resource Conserving) restriction on ZDDP and you will greatly benefit from it for reducing wear. Also, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear. Shorter oil-change intervals always help, too.
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30, as the oil blenders like to keep the xW-20 viscosities on the high side and the xW-30 viscosities on the low side.
It looks like your engine is wearing itself away very fast. I would use xW-40, such as Mobil 1 0W-40 or Shell Rotella 5W-40. xW-40 oils don't have the ILSAC (Resource Conserving) restriction on ZDDP and you will greatly benefit from it for reducing wear. Also, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear. Shorter oil-change intervals always help, too.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I'm telling the world these engines, even the non-VCM V6's in the Pilot and Odyssey, are really hard on the oil. Pretty dirty. Fe seems a tad high, but nothing here really surprises me.
If anyone should know, the chances are that Pablo Knows
And,to the "world", no less!
Cheers!
I'm telling the world these engines, even the non-VCM V6's in the Pilot and Odyssey, are really hard on the oil. Pretty dirty. Fe seems a tad high, but nothing here really surprises me.
If anyone should know, the chances are that Pablo Knows
And,to the "world", no less!
Cheers!
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30,
I would use xW-40, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear.
+1, but only if OP is not worried about the warranty period!
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30,
I would use xW-40, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear.
+1, but only if OP is not worried about the warranty period!
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30,
I would use xW-40, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear.
+1, but only if OP is not worried about the warranty period!
Would using a thicker oil void the warranty? Probably not so. He should check with Honda. Toyota owners' manuals for cars using 0W-20 say that "The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions." If an engine is wearing away that fast, that means that any load condition is an extreme load condition for that engine.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30,
I would use xW-40, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear.
+1, but only if OP is not worried about the warranty period!
Would using a thicker oil void the warranty? Probably not so. He should check with Honda. Toyota owners' manuals for cars using 0W-20 say that "The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions." If an engine is wearing away that fast, that means that any load condition is an extreme load condition for that engine.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30,
I would use xW-40, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear.
+1, but only if OP is not worried about the warranty period!
Would using a thicker oil void the warranty? Probably not so. He should check with Honda. Toyota owners' manuals for cars using 0W-20 say that "The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions." If an engine is wearing away that fast, that means that any load condition is an extreme load condition for that engine.
x2. If the wear is due to dirt or other particulates bigger than the oil-film at the severe operating conditions, Yes a thicker oil will help. Otherwise the OP needs to find the cause of this wear!
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say the OP bumps up to a 5w30
There is hardly much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30,
I would use xW-40, you will benefit from the thicker oil film, which will also help you reduce wear.
+1, but only if OP is not worried about the warranty period!
Would using a thicker oil void the warranty? Probably not so. He should check with Honda. Toyota owners' manuals for cars using 0W-20 say that "The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the oil viscosity when the oil is at its operating temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions." If an engine is wearing away that fast, that means that any load condition is an extreme load condition for that engine.
x2. If the wear is due to dirt or other particulates bigger than the oil-film at the severe operating conditions, Yes a thicker oil will help. Otherwise the OP needs to find the cause of this wear!
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Ouch, not great results at all!
Relatively large amount of fuel and dirt (insols.) in the oil, which must be what is accelerating wear.
If it were me, I'd forget what the lab and the MM says.
I'd do that 1-2 times, and then re-sample to see how the engine is doing.
I agree with this! Have a look at the air filter and the plumbing associated with it too.
Ouch, not great results at all!
Relatively large amount of fuel and dirt (insols.) in the oil, which must be what is accelerating wear.
If it were me, I'd forget what the lab and the MM says.
I'd do that 1-2 times, and then re-sample to see how the engine is doing.
I agree with this! Have a look at the air filter and the plumbing associated with it too.
Order Eneos Sustina 0w-20(or 5w-20 if it specifically calls for it, to not void warranty),they promise it is super duper stable and most advanced oil as for today. My 5w-30 case should be delivered today.
Last edited:
As far as the silicon goes, EVERY Honda that I've had recently (08 Civic, 08 CR-V, 09Accord, 11 Pilot, 11 Fit) have all had high silicon levels, even after changing out the filter and inspecting for leaks past the filters. I sure in the [censored] wish I could figure out what it is, but I can't. It may not help that we live in an area that has a lot of sand, but the filters should be working.
The sad thing is that this vehicle is not worked THAT hard. Again, its used mostly as a daily driver by my wife, mostly rural driving. I occasionally (less than 4 times a year) use it to tow a landscape trailer of which my heaviest load was right around 3,000lbs for 30 miles. As mentioned, I put M1 5W20 back in it when I took this sample, but I'll surely put in 5W30 to see how it reacts.
The sad thing is that this vehicle is not worked THAT hard. Again, its used mostly as a daily driver by my wife, mostly rural driving. I occasionally (less than 4 times a year) use it to tow a landscape trailer of which my heaviest load was right around 3,000lbs for 30 miles. As mentioned, I put M1 5W20 back in it when I took this sample, but I'll surely put in 5W30 to see how it reacts.
- Status
Similar threads
