Mobil 1 5w-30 5,390 Miles 2002 Civic SI

[TroyB]

2002 Honda Civic SI 2.0L i-4 K20a3 94,695 miles.
5,390 miles OCI.
Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 oil filter.

Comments:
TROY: Thanks for the note about your oil experiment. We think you'll find that your engine will look good no matter what type of oil you use. Honda makes really nice engines. Things look pretty good here for your 2.0L using Mobil 1. Wear is at or below average, and your oil run is almost as long as average, which is about 6,000 miles. With no excess fuel, water, or coolant present in your oil, this is "cracking-up" to be a pretty good report for Yellow Egg. (Sorry! We couldn't help it.) Insolubles show good oil filtration. Your engine can handle 7,300 miles.

Elements/ Sample/ Universal Averages
ALUMINUM/ 3/ 3
CHROMIUM/ 0/ 0
IRON/ 8/ 10
COPPER/ 5/ 3
LEAD/ 0/ 2
TIN/ 0/ 0
MOLYBDENUM/ 131/ 81
NICKEL/ 0/ 0
MANGANESE/ 0/ 0
SILVER/ 0/ 0
TITANIUM/ 0/ 0
POTASSIUM/ 2/ 2
BORON/ 76/ 39
SILICON/ 5/ 12
SODIUM/ 18/ 50
CALCIUM/ 2379/ 2643
MAGNESIUM/ 10/ 41
PHOSPHORUS/ 703/ 667
ZINC/ 784/ 768
BARIUM/ 0/ 0

Sample/ Should Be
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F/ 57.2/ 57-64
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C/ 9.43/ 9.4-11.6
Flashpoint in °F/ 410/ >405
Fuel %/ Antifreeze %/ 0/ 0
Water %/ 0/ Insolubles %/ 0.2/ <0.6

 

[addyguy]

Looks great. Run it longer next time.

 

[Artem]

Whats the Oil experiment, Tony?

 

[Hounds]

Another excellent UOA for a Honda EP3 K20A3 motor. Similar results with PP 5W-30: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2039741#Post2039741
FWIW, I think running a 5W-30 weight oil in this engine is a good idea.

 

[Artem]

^Might not be completely necessary because the K series in the EP3 doesn't rev that high and should be able to get away with using a 5w-20 (isn't that what is recommended for the EP3?

The RSX is the same way. The base model calls for 5w-20 while the Type S, revving to 8,000rpm requires 5w-30.

 

[tig1]

10K would not be a problem for your engine and this oil.

 

[TroyB]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Whats the Oil experiment, Tony?


Troy actually

.

As for the "experiment" I recently started working at a shop that sells Kendall full-syn. and I didn't find anything here about it.
So I sent a virgin sample to get tested. I also sent a sample of a known oil (this one) to be able to compare the Kendall in the same engine..

 

[TroyB]

Originally Posted By: Artem
^Might not be completely necessary because the K series in the EP3 doesn't rev that high and should be able to get away with using a 5w-20 (isn't that what is recommended for the EP3?

The RSX is the same way. The base model calls for 5w-20 while the Type S, revving to 8,000rpm requires 5w-30.


I'd be willing to bet my car spends more time past 6K than most RSX-Ss'..

 

[Hounds]

Originally Posted By: TroyB
Originally Posted By: Artem
^Might not be completely necessary because the K series in the EP3 doesn't rev that high and should be able to get away with using a 5w-20 (isn't that what is recommended for the EP3?

The RSX is the same way. The base model calls for 5w-20 while the Type S, revving to 8,000rpm requires 5w-30.


I'd be willing to bet my car spends more time past 6K than most RSX-Ss'..

Responding to the original quote, the reason that Honda specifies a 5W-30 weight oil for all its K20A2 engines (and 5W-30 weight synthetic oil for its turbocharged engines) is to ensure the requirements of a HT/HS lubricant are met. Thus, while reasonable men can disagree, I, like the OP, believe those requirements are more than sufficient reason to opt for a 5W-30 weight oil, even in an EP3, and particular one that (as the OP wrote) "spends more time past 6K than most RSX-Ss." Good thinking. And his UOA bears that out.

 

[iluvhonda]

question for the OP. Did you have this car since new? did you ever notice a more than normal oil consumption? when we had our MY02 Si, it had a major consumption problem and it was driven by a 50 plus year old man. so it was not abused.

yellow egg? is that a little joke about the european yellow color you have?

 

[Hounds]

Originally Posted By: iluvhonda
question for the OP. Did you have this car since new? did you ever notice a more than normal oil consumption? when we had our MY02 Si, it had a major consumption problem and it was driven by a 50 plus year old man. so it was not abused. . . .

iluvhonda: While we're waiting for the OP to return, because I, too, am a "50-plus year old" and I also owned an '02 EP3 (which I sold last month), I hope you won't mind if I offer a couple of thoughts regarding the potential causes of high (or, perhaps better said, "higher") oil consumption in the K20A3 engine in the EP3.

First let me say that, generally speaking, it's unusual for a Honda engine to consume oil but not unheard of in the K20A2 and A3 engines. Even in engines in sound mechanical shape, the A2s and A3s turn a lot of rpm under most circumstances, and the EP3s were geared short to begin with: 3K at 60 mph is getting up there. I treated mine like a child and still added perhaps three-quarters of quart between 5k-mile OCIs. I also happen to own another EP3, an '05, which is also driven conservatively, and it, too, uses "some" oil between regular oil changes depending entirely on how it's driven. (And, speaking on behalf of a few 50-plus year old men, I have been known to turn an rpm or two.)

And then there's the issue of volatility. Some oils (M1's 5W-20, for example) tend to be more volatile than others. (I'd say more, but I'm sure the M1 guys -- of which I am one, by the way -- will go nuts.) Suffice it to say I had much less oil consumption with M1's and PP's 5W-30 weight oils.

If you are really interested in pursuing this topic further, I recommend posting your question on ephatch.com. TalonXRacer has several additional explanations (and theories) for high oil consumption in k-series motors, and I leave it to you to evaluate his thoughts.

 

[webfors]

Excellent report! You could run it longer for sure.

 

[TroyB]

Originally Posted By: iluvhonda
question for the OP. Did you have this car since new? did you ever notice a more than normal oil consumption? when we had our MY02 Si, it had a major consumption problem and it was driven by a 50 plus year old man. so it was not abused.

yellow egg? is that a little joke about the european yellow color you have?


No I purchased the car in 04 with 12K on the odometer. Yep the joke is about the color(factory) and the fact it looks like an egg on its side.
I've noticed that different oils seem to vanish at different rates. Factory oil seemed to be around 1qt./2K miles. Redline 5-30 was 1qt./4k miles. M1 5-20 was 1 1/2 qt./4k miles, and 5-30 seems to be .5-1qt./5k. BTW according to honda 1/2 a quart every 500 is within ACCEPTABLE usage limits.
I ve also found that K series v/c like to leak in the back corners as early as 60K.

One reason for the heavier oil is the VTEC and VTC systems run at such high pressures it turns the lighter weight oil to vapor easier, getting sucked through the PCV system and burned. Another reason to keep a heavier weight oil in a K-series is the mysterious cam galling.

 

[Hounds]

TroyB: I remember that pic. It and and several others on the Honda boards convinced me early on ('02) that 5W-30 was the way to go even in the A3 motors, particularly if you were going to lean on them. You are wise beyond your years, TroyB!

 

[Bror Jace]

TroyB, if you decide to stick with Mobil 1, I'd use their more robust EP or High-Mileage formulations ... although this stuff did pretty well.

I would, however, get rid of the restrictive Mobil 1 oil filter in favor of a Pure One or something else.

 

[tig1]

Restrictive M1 filter? How so? First I have heard of this. I've been using M1 filters since they first came out, along with several friends of mine, and they are a great oil filter.
Sorry, but I'm not buying the unproven claim.

 

[iluvhonda]

I can vouch for the weak K series valve cover gaskets too. Even on a '07 Si.

Gurney, thanks for the insight. We got rid of '02 Si in '06 to get the '07 Si. Looking back on it, I really loved it! I would consider picking up one for myself.

 

[cobrapaul]

Nice to see other EP3s doing well!

I've read the cam galling was limited to the first 1-1.5 years of production, the camshaft metallurgy was improved after that point.