OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
That is very much the case sir. That is the list I was using, but only bothered to grab the ones that I recognized for my (much shorter) list.
Mobil 1 0w30 / 12,000miles gmc Terrain
- Thread starter Dogger37
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After seeing one fuel infested UOA report after another from these DI engines, i can't help but feel that GM is using the public to do their final R&D testing.
I've read somewhere that the new DI engines coming out now have improved injectors among other things to help with the fuel issues.
I'm one of those that don't buy the first models made of ANY product, hence why i bought two 07 Civics and not the 06s which had all sorts of issues. So i'm going to stay away from the DI engines until all the issues and bugs are worked out in the upcoming years/models.
Once so much extra fuel isn't being wasted, these DI engines should be more economical then they are today.
I've read somewhere that the new DI engines coming out now have improved injectors among other things to help with the fuel issues.
I'm one of those that don't buy the first models made of ANY product, hence why i bought two 07 Civics and not the 06s which had all sorts of issues. So i'm going to stay away from the DI engines until all the issues and bugs are worked out in the upcoming years/models.
Once so much extra fuel isn't being wasted, these DI engines should be more economical then they are today.
Originally Posted By: Dogger37
wallyuwl,
Just curious what oil are you running?
I ran the FF to 36% OLM, about 6500 miles. Then I ran the next change (Mobil conventional) to about 3000 because at that time I had to get the cam shaft position sensor replaced (common problem) and the repair requires an oil change. That one ran about 6000, then I put in M1 and ran 6000 or so. Then another change of M1 for the same mileage. Then Mobil conventional for about 4000, now about 1500 on Mobil conventional. This is all off memory, so it might be a bit off.
I had free oil changes from GM for two years or 30000, whichever came first. Now I'm done with the free oil changes. The M1 changes I paid the difference. It did run quieter with the M1. This is a loud engine for being newly designed, as you know.
I'll run this oil probably about 5000 total miles. Then from here on out it will see Synpower for 6000 mile intervals. For two reasons: 1) it handles fuel dilution well according to Amsoil's tests, and 2) I have a huge stash I got last fall (now down to about 50 quarts) for $2.50 a quart or so with sales/rebates. Also, since mine is a 2010, it doesn't require Dexos 1 approved oil (which technically Synpower isn't, though it meets the spec I understand).
wallyuwl,
Just curious what oil are you running?
I ran the FF to 36% OLM, about 6500 miles. Then I ran the next change (Mobil conventional) to about 3000 because at that time I had to get the cam shaft position sensor replaced (common problem) and the repair requires an oil change. That one ran about 6000, then I put in M1 and ran 6000 or so. Then another change of M1 for the same mileage. Then Mobil conventional for about 4000, now about 1500 on Mobil conventional. This is all off memory, so it might be a bit off.
I had free oil changes from GM for two years or 30000, whichever came first. Now I'm done with the free oil changes. The M1 changes I paid the difference. It did run quieter with the M1. This is a loud engine for being newly designed, as you know.
I'll run this oil probably about 5000 total miles. Then from here on out it will see Synpower for 6000 mile intervals. For two reasons: 1) it handles fuel dilution well according to Amsoil's tests, and 2) I have a huge stash I got last fall (now down to about 50 quarts) for $2.50 a quart or so with sales/rebates. Also, since mine is a 2010, it doesn't require Dexos 1 approved oil (which technically Synpower isn't, though it meets the spec I understand).
Originally Posted By: Artem
After seeing one fuel infested UOA report after another from these DI engines, i can't help but feel that GM is using the public to do their final R&D testing.
I've read somewhere that the new DI engines coming out now have improved injectors among other things to help with the fuel issues.
I'm one of those that don't buy the first models made of ANY product, hence why i bought two 07 Civics and not the 06s which had all sorts of issues. So i'm going to stay away from the DI engines until all the issues and bugs are worked out in the upcoming years/models.
Once so much extra fuel isn't being wasted, these DI engines should be more economical then they are today.
I agree. DI is a problem looking for a solution, and at the expense of the consumer. I caught some flames for my opinions, but it seems more and more people are having issues, and these threads prove it. Here we are seeing fuel dilution problems, what till the intake valve deposit problems start rearing their ugly heads.
After seeing one fuel infested UOA report after another from these DI engines, i can't help but feel that GM is using the public to do their final R&D testing.
I've read somewhere that the new DI engines coming out now have improved injectors among other things to help with the fuel issues.
I'm one of those that don't buy the first models made of ANY product, hence why i bought two 07 Civics and not the 06s which had all sorts of issues. So i'm going to stay away from the DI engines until all the issues and bugs are worked out in the upcoming years/models.
Once so much extra fuel isn't being wasted, these DI engines should be more economical then they are today.
I agree. DI is a problem looking for a solution, and at the expense of the consumer. I caught some flames for my opinions, but it seems more and more people are having issues, and these threads prove it. Here we are seeing fuel dilution problems, what till the intake valve deposit problems start rearing their ugly heads.
For an engine that is known for it's fuel economy-3.5% fuel in the oil is OFF THE HOOK high! I'd be running dexos 1 oil and documenting EVERYTHING if it was me. The AFE 0W30 is a decent oil, I'm actually approaching 7K on my wife's '05 xB with it, and I will have an analysis done when I change it at 8K.
This is a case of to long oci for a new engine.
New engines need frequent oil change specially GM's among many.
Good news is lead is super low. I would stick to an approved dino if possible and do 3k for a few oci's and then go extended (i.e., 6k miles) with higher quality synthetic.
I used M1 5w-30 on two of past cars well over 100k and they did not even used oil with that much miles.
New engines need frequent oil change specially GM's among many.
Good news is lead is super low. I would stick to an approved dino if possible and do 3k for a few oci's and then go extended (i.e., 6k miles) with higher quality synthetic.
I used M1 5w-30 on two of past cars well over 100k and they did not even used oil with that much miles.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: tig1
As for Chevrofreaks comment, he has no basis for it other than than opinion. M1 oils are widely used here by BITOGERs with outstanding results.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
As tig stated, chevrofreak's opinions regarding Mobil 1 are just that.... opinions. He has no data to back them up.
I have plenty of evidence and basis for it. Not only was Mobil 1 5w-30 failing the Seq IVA tests, but my own personal use of it showed large amounts of ferrous particles trapped by my oil filter magnet. Pennzoil Platinum, which was run even longer, showed a small fraction of the amount of metal.
The Seq IVA test failure is a red herring, since we have nothing other than the claims of their competition to support it. The API stated that Mobil 1 (and it was ONLY the 5w30 being questioned) passed the test.
Unless you have actual tear-down testing (which you don't) and components measured out to support your theory (which you don't) and ran multiple tests side-by-side operating under the same conditions with the only variable at play being the lubricant (which you haven't) then you don't have a leg to stand on.
Some guy on the Internet doing UOA's and some junk on a drain plug (which for all you know may have been cleaned out of some sludge or varnish pocket somewhere in the engine) doesn't support your theory and the fact you go off half-cocked about how bad it is EVERY time somebody mentions Mobil 1 on this site is getting quite old.
You don't have data. You hate Mobil 1. Good for you. Go write a letter and burn it. Throw a tantrum.
Or, if you are sure you are right, go do the bloody testing yourself and PROVE IT.
Until then, you are just spewing unfounded opinions as facts on this board.
Doug Hillary posted pictures and tear down data of engines run on Delvac 1 at 90,000Km intervals over 1.2 million Km in a FLEET of trucks that he ran for lubricant testing.
That, good sir, is REAL DATA. Your jaded opinion, is NOT.
Doug's testing of Delvac 1 is irrelevant to the topic of Mobil 1 as they are completely different formulations for different purposes.
A sludge pocket? No. the engine had seen an Auto RX clean and two rinse cycles, and a run of Pennzoil Platinum (which also had a magnet on the filter, and showed about 1/10th of the iron particles). There was no sludge pocket.
You defend Mobil 1 far more than I attack it. You've easily achieved fanboy status.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: tig1
As for Chevrofreaks comment, he has no basis for it other than than opinion. M1 oils are widely used here by BITOGERs with outstanding results.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
As tig stated, chevrofreak's opinions regarding Mobil 1 are just that.... opinions. He has no data to back them up.
I have plenty of evidence and basis for it. Not only was Mobil 1 5w-30 failing the Seq IVA tests, but my own personal use of it showed large amounts of ferrous particles trapped by my oil filter magnet. Pennzoil Platinum, which was run even longer, showed a small fraction of the amount of metal.
The Seq IVA test failure is a red herring, since we have nothing other than the claims of their competition to support it. The API stated that Mobil 1 (and it was ONLY the 5w30 being questioned) passed the test.
Unless you have actual tear-down testing (which you don't) and components measured out to support your theory (which you don't) and ran multiple tests side-by-side operating under the same conditions with the only variable at play being the lubricant (which you haven't) then you don't have a leg to stand on.
Some guy on the Internet doing UOA's and some junk on a drain plug (which for all you know may have been cleaned out of some sludge or varnish pocket somewhere in the engine) doesn't support your theory and the fact you go off half-cocked about how bad it is EVERY time somebody mentions Mobil 1 on this site is getting quite old.
You don't have data. You hate Mobil 1. Good for you. Go write a letter and burn it. Throw a tantrum.
Or, if you are sure you are right, go do the bloody testing yourself and PROVE IT.
Until then, you are just spewing unfounded opinions as facts on this board.
Doug Hillary posted pictures and tear down data of engines run on Delvac 1 at 90,000Km intervals over 1.2 million Km in a FLEET of trucks that he ran for lubricant testing.
That, good sir, is REAL DATA. Your jaded opinion, is NOT.
Doug's testing of Delvac 1 is irrelevant to the topic of Mobil 1 as they are completely different formulations for different purposes.
A sludge pocket? No. the engine had seen an Auto RX clean and two rinse cycles, and a run of Pennzoil Platinum (which also had a magnet on the filter, and showed about 1/10th of the iron particles). There was no sludge pocket.
You defend Mobil 1 far more than I attack it. You've easily achieved fanboy status.
I use and like Mobil 1 0W-30 in my 2.5L Jaguar X-Type with manual trans. I drive it like an idiot and it rewards me with very good UOA's.
The highest Iron I've seen is 24 at 5000 miles.
Engine now has well North of 100K on it and still runs perfectly.
The highest Iron I've seen is 24 at 5000 miles.
Engine now has well North of 100K on it and still runs perfectly.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Doug's testing of Delvac 1 is irrelevant to the topic of Mobil 1 as they are completely different formulations for different purposes.
A sludge pocket? No. the engine had seen an Auto RX clean and two rinse cycles, and a run of Pennzoil Platinum (which also had a magnet on the filter, and showed about 1/10th of the iron particles). There was no sludge pocket.
You defend Mobil 1 far more than I attack it. You've easily achieved fanboy status.
Oh yes, let's start on the topic of the effectiveness of AutoRX.... Another REALLY hot topic on this board
Doug's test was of a Mobil synthetic product: Delvac 1. It is no more a red herring than your mention of the SEQ VIA fiasco, which revolved around only 5w30.
Doug also has extensive testing of Mobil 1 0w40 under his belt, and I'm sure many other grades. Confound that real-world data!!
You condemn Mobil 1 based on some trumped up horse manure and your own opinion. I simply choose to refute those opinions for what they are: baseless.
Doug's testing of Delvac 1 is irrelevant to the topic of Mobil 1 as they are completely different formulations for different purposes.
A sludge pocket? No. the engine had seen an Auto RX clean and two rinse cycles, and a run of Pennzoil Platinum (which also had a magnet on the filter, and showed about 1/10th of the iron particles). There was no sludge pocket.
You defend Mobil 1 far more than I attack it. You've easily achieved fanboy status.
Oh yes, let's start on the topic of the effectiveness of AutoRX.... Another REALLY hot topic on this board
Doug's test was of a Mobil synthetic product: Delvac 1. It is no more a red herring than your mention of the SEQ VIA fiasco, which revolved around only 5w30.
Doug also has extensive testing of Mobil 1 0w40 under his belt, and I'm sure many other grades. Confound that real-world data!!
You condemn Mobil 1 based on some trumped up horse manure and your own opinion. I simply choose to refute those opinions for what they are: baseless.
I don't think this UOA looks that bad. Looks like a new engine with a lot of residual metal in it with an oil that was run a bit too far. Not worth stressing out yet at this point about.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Doug's testing of Delvac 1 is irrelevant to the topic of Mobil 1 as they are completely different formulations for different purposes.
A sludge pocket? No. the engine had seen an Auto RX clean and two rinse cycles, and a run of Pennzoil Platinum (which also had a magnet on the filter, and showed about 1/10th of the iron particles). There was no sludge pocket.
You defend Mobil 1 far more than I attack it. You've easily achieved fanboy status.
Oh yes, let's start on the topic of the effectiveness of AutoRX.... Another REALLY hot topic on this board
Doug's test was of a Mobil synthetic product: Delvac 1. It is no more a red herring than your mention of the SEQ VIA fiasco, which revolved around only 5w30.
Doug also has extensive testing of Mobil 1 0w40 under his belt, and I'm sure many other grades. Confound that real-world data!!
You condemn Mobil 1 based on some trumped up horse manure and your own opinion. I simply choose to refute those opinions for what they are: baseless.
I agree with you. I have used many different motor oils and most likely have owned more cars then most and Mobil 1 has always worked well in all my cars. Only reason I use different brand oils is because I like to change it up every once in a while... For a store brand oil Mobil most likely is the best... PP is also good but I think overall Mobil has the best oils.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Doug's testing of Delvac 1 is irrelevant to the topic of Mobil 1 as they are completely different formulations for different purposes.
A sludge pocket? No. the engine had seen an Auto RX clean and two rinse cycles, and a run of Pennzoil Platinum (which also had a magnet on the filter, and showed about 1/10th of the iron particles). There was no sludge pocket.
You defend Mobil 1 far more than I attack it. You've easily achieved fanboy status.
Oh yes, let's start on the topic of the effectiveness of AutoRX.... Another REALLY hot topic on this board
Doug's test was of a Mobil synthetic product: Delvac 1. It is no more a red herring than your mention of the SEQ VIA fiasco, which revolved around only 5w30.
Doug also has extensive testing of Mobil 1 0w40 under his belt, and I'm sure many other grades. Confound that real-world data!!
You condemn Mobil 1 based on some trumped up horse manure and your own opinion. I simply choose to refute those opinions for what they are: baseless.
I agree with you. I have used many different motor oils and most likely have owned more cars then most and Mobil 1 has always worked well in all my cars. Only reason I use different brand oils is because I like to change it up every once in a while... For a store brand oil Mobil most likely is the best... PP is also good but I think overall Mobil has the best oils.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Understand. Yes the wear metals can be elevated for quite a few miles on a new engine. Good news is there was little lead wear and the overall wm are not too high considering the new motor and the 12,000 run.
What if it has bi-metal bearings? (no lead)
Understand. Yes the wear metals can be elevated for quite a few miles on a new engine. Good news is there was little lead wear and the overall wm are not too high considering the new motor and the 12,000 run.
What if it has bi-metal bearings? (no lead)
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
For a store brand oil Mobil most likely is the best... PP is also good but I think overall Mobil has the best oils.
I agree that Mobil 1 probably has the best and most complete overall lineup of the big oil brands.
For a store brand oil Mobil most likely is the best... PP is also good but I think overall Mobil has the best oils.
I agree that Mobil 1 probably has the best and most complete overall lineup of the big oil brands.
I would want to know why the fuel dilution is 3.5? IF you can't get a handle on the fuel dilution then you will need short ocis and a 5w or 0w 40wt oil. The fuel dilution is giving you a really low viscosity oil and it you don't/cant get that stopped i would run rotella 5w 40.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
For an engine that is known for it's fuel economy-3.5% fuel in the oil is OFF THE HOOK high!
My take from this is that you are saying the fuel in the oil is reducing fuel mileage. That is only 0.175 quarts of fuel that accumulated in the oil over a 12k mile OCI. Completely insignificant as far as fuel mileage is concerned.
For an engine that is known for it's fuel economy-3.5% fuel in the oil is OFF THE HOOK high!
My take from this is that you are saying the fuel in the oil is reducing fuel mileage. That is only 0.175 quarts of fuel that accumulated in the oil over a 12k mile OCI. Completely insignificant as far as fuel mileage is concerned.
Bad report. Should have flushed it out much earlier. Use VWB in that DI engine... we've seen a few good reports with it
As for M1 haters and lovers, it's getting old. Would I use M1's 5w30? No, and I don't have to spend thousands of dollars, and hundreds of hours to explain why to Overkill, Tig, Doug or any other M1 fan. Would I use other oils in their lineup, you bet, but I wouldn't pay a premium for them.
I like their products, but let's not pretend they are the holy grail of oil, because they aren't. No such thing exists.
As for M1 haters and lovers, it's getting old. Would I use M1's 5w30? No, and I don't have to spend thousands of dollars, and hundreds of hours to explain why to Overkill, Tig, Doug or any other M1 fan. Would I use other oils in their lineup, you bet, but I wouldn't pay a premium for them.
I like their products, but let's not pretend they are the holy grail of oil, because they aren't. No such thing exists.
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
For an engine that is known for it's fuel economy-3.5% fuel in the oil is OFF THE HOOK high!
My take from this is that you are saying the fuel in the oil is reducing fuel mileage. That is only 0.175 quarts of fuel that accumulated in the oil over a 12k mile OCI. Completely insignificant as far as fuel mileage is concerned.
You're forgetting that fuel in the oil gets burned off when the engine gets hot, so for 12k miles fuel has been getting into the oil and being burned off at the same time so there's actually a lot more fuel loss then just your 0.175 calculation.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
For an engine that is known for it's fuel economy-3.5% fuel in the oil is OFF THE HOOK high!
My take from this is that you are saying the fuel in the oil is reducing fuel mileage. That is only 0.175 quarts of fuel that accumulated in the oil over a 12k mile OCI. Completely insignificant as far as fuel mileage is concerned.
You're forgetting that fuel in the oil gets burned off when the engine gets hot, so for 12k miles fuel has been getting into the oil and being burned off at the same time so there's actually a lot more fuel loss then just your 0.175 calculation.
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