Mobil 1 0W-40 SuperSyn

[Eiron]

Here's another VOA of this oil. I'm posting this because of the slight inconsistencies we've seen among the previous 0W-40 VOA runs. There are three other 0W-40 VOAs that I could find (I don't feel the Belgian 5W-40 "System-S" is valid for comparison). Of these, two (both from Scaeffer's Labs) showed some moly & one (from Oil Analyzers) showed no moly. This sample was run by a different lab (H.O.Penn), so I thought folks would like to see what they came up with.

I bought a bunch of this oil (about 6 changes-worth; don't ask) around Nov '02, but it was all loose stock. I put 4qts in my car in Dec '02, & then sent in this sample (from an unopened bottle) in Feb '03. I didn't think to track lot numbers. Sorry. If it's any consolation, I'll be using this opened bottle to top up the crankcase when I take my first UOA sample & change the filter at 5k miles.

code:

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Copper: 2

Iron: 3

Chrome: 0

Lead: 2

Aluminum: 6

Silicon: 3

Molybdenum: 73

Sodium: 15

Calcium: 2813

Tin: 0

Potassium: 10

Magnesium: 5

Zinc: 903

Water: Negative

Viscosity: 14.9

-

Part Count: >=5 1917

>=15 24

ISO: 18/12

---

As for the Particle Count reading, I was told it was per milliliter, & should be read as,
"Number of particles up to 5 microns in size equals 1917"
and,
"Number of particles up to 15 microns in size equals 24"

The ISO number is a type of quick-reading "equation," where particle counts are broken into ranges & assigned values. These values are then placed together into a single equation, with 5um read first & 15um read second. This way, you have a quick idea of particle density without having exact numbers. (If you're not confused, ask me to 'splain it again...)

 

[J]

Hey Greg,

I've got an oil analysis of Saab Turbo oil.
I'll post it shortly. It should be interesting.
It's got no moly. I wonder what you-know-who
will say (you know ... the stauch and somewhat
irrational supporter of all thing Saab)

Thanks for this. So, you've got 6 gallons
of 0W-40?!?

I'm pretty happy. I managed to do some good
problem solving at work today, and I've got a
date with a hot chick tomorrow.

Oh ... I sent the PDF of oil analysis to
your qwest address.

Jae

[ March 29, 2003, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: J ]

 

[Eiron]

J,
Thanks for the PDF. I think TG was reading off the 0W-30 full syn bottle, not the 5W-30. (This would make sense in terms of moly.)

Didn't I say, "don't ask"? Yeesh...
(It's embarrasing enough to simply admit it. Do I have to explain it, too??) I only even mentioned it so that folks know I've got quite few bottles, & there's no separating out which four I used.

 

[quadrun1]

Hey, I also bought around 6 oil changes worth of M1 0W-40, when it went on sale here for $4.29/quart!

 

[J]

quote:

---

Originally posted by quadrun1:
Hey, I also bought around 6 oil changes worth of M1 0W-40, when it went on sale here for $4.29/quart!

---

You guys are true hoily demi-gods. I've only
got two liters in my "oil shrine". I'll be
ordering some more.

Jae

 

[J]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg Netzner:


Didn't I say, "don't ask"? Yeesh...
(It's embarrasing enough to simply admit it. Do I have to explain it, too??) ...

---

Hey Greg,

I thought that every one of us has at least
one embarrassing secret, namely being grown men
who talk 24/7 about oil whose primary purpose
is not sensual.

Jae

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by J:

quote:

---

Originally posted by quadrun1:
Hey, I also bought around 6 oil changes worth of M1 0W-40, when it went on sale here for $4.29/quart!

---

You guys are true hoily demi-gods. I've only
got two liters in my "oil shrine". I'll be
ordering some more.

Jae

---

My oil shrine has got at least 25-30L of oil in it, if not more. Some of it I probably won't even use.

 

[Quattro Pete]

While we're all confessing, I've got about 1.5 qts of M1 TriSyn 0w-30 sitting on the shelf. If anyone wants it - please let me know.

 

[Eiron]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:
My oil shrine has got at least 25-30L of oil in it, if not more. Some of it I probably won't even use.

---

Yeah, but you change how many vehicles? And didn't you mention something about sneaking over to your neighbor's house to sample their oil...? You don't change it, too, do you?

Not only do I have three different types of oil, I also have 4qts of slightly used "bulk" oil. I couldn't get a firm answer as to what brand/type it was, so I pulled it out of my car with only 20 miles on it. But, we occasionally borrow a friend's truck, & the last two times the oil wasn't even showing on the dipstick! I've been using this bulk oil just to keep the beater going.

 

[Patman]

That's true, I do change oil in 4 vehicles for my family, which is part of the reason for the huge stockpile.

BTW, I counted, and I have 44L worth of oil.

 

[Quick_lude]

Hey I'm not doing that bad then.. I only have 7L of M1 0w40 and maybe a half litre of 10w30 TriSyn.. I guess I can bypass the oil addicts anonymous door for now..

 

[Stinky Peterson]

"As for the Particle Count reading, I was told it was per milliliter, & should be read as, "Number of particles up to 5 microns in size equals 1917" and, "Number of particles up to 15 microns in size equals 24"

This is incorrect. The 5 micron count shows particles 5 microns and bigger and the 15 micron shows particles 15 and larger. Most Caterpillar labs use a particle counter that measures 8 size ranges (5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 50, 75, 100). The 15 will always be smaller than the 10 and the 10 smaller than the 5 and so on because the instruments are set for cumulative counting. The thing to remember is more bigger particles is bad so you want the number on the bottom (the 12 in 18/12) to be as small as possible. In your case 12 is good but the 1917 is a little high. FYI each increase in ISO indicates a doubling in the number or particles, so going from 12 to 13 means you have approximately twice as many particles.

I am surprised that most of the new oil oil analysis reports being posted do not show the particle counts because it is measuring cleanliness of the oil and probably has greater impact that any other factor. My experience has shown that most new oils are not clean enough to be used without filtering. Caterpillar wants an ISO cleanliness level of 16/13 for fill oils. I know this is for diesel engines but it is a good target.

One last thing, measuring oil performance or comparing oil by measuring additive levels is a little like trying to tell how good a cake taste by looking at the recipe. There are much better ways to do this such as looking at the performance tests.

Stinky

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stinky Peterson:
One last thing, measuring oil performance or comparing oil by measuring additive levels is a little like trying to tell how good a cake taste by looking at the recipe. There are much better ways to do this such as looking at the performance tests.

---

I think there are two main reasons we do VOAs on oils: First, to establish some baselines to compare UOAs to. And second, simply to compare the composiition of various oils. The real measure of any oil's performance is with a UOA.

 

[Stinky Peterson]

Hi G-man

I fully agree with establishing a baseline but question the value in comparing composition as you can't really judge quality or performance by looking at these numbers. It is however interesting to see what's in the oil. The API does a pretty good job when they classify the oils.

I myself would do it for cleanliness testing alone but I don't see this on most of the reports.

Do you usually have to pay for this service? I'm just curious because if the lab is doing FTIR most need a reference oil to perform the test.

Stinky

 

[Eiron]

Hi Stinky,

I agree with you about how the ISO should be read (based on the mathmatical symbology being used), but that's not what I was told by the rep I'm working with. (I did suggest they change their symbology to read differently.) The rep mentioned the same ISO 16/13 target for diesel engines, & also commented on the relative cleanliness of the oil. Thanks for the doubling info! Do you work for a lab?

Yes, this VOA is for baseline against the 0W-40 I'm currently running. However, I also felt a 3rd lab might help reconcile some of the inconsistencies between the other 0W-40 VOAs already posted. (i.e., comparing the same mix against itself.)

To a certain extent, I feel VOA comparisons between different oils are valid if you're looking to include or exclude certain ingredients. (If you didn't want moly but did want extra zinc, for example.) But I agree, it takes an experienced chef to know how things will taste just by looking at the ingredients.

I also agree with you that particle counts like this should be included in all reports, as it would take a lot of the guesswork out of filter efficiencies.

 

[Stinky Peterson]

Hi Eiron

Sorry but the person you are talking to is mistaken. From your original message you mentioned that: "Number of particles up to 5 microns in size equals 1917" and,"Number of particles up to 15 microns in size equals 24". This cannot be correct because the number of particles up to 15 would include the 1917 particles reported as >5 and therefore the number would be higher and not lower. 1917 includes all the particles that were counted and of them 24 are larger than 15. Not that it matters, but I have spent many hours working with this particular instrument and in fact developed the procedure endorsed and published by Hiac-Royco (the instrument manufacturer) for syringe drive samplers. Yes to your question about working for a lab, I manage one of the Cat dealer labs.

I agree with your reasons for doing the VOA, unfortunately most people, including myself, don't really know enough about oil additives to tell much from the limited info available on a standard oil analysis report. There are many schools of thought about additive chemistry and even the experts can't agree on some things. Also a lot of the information we have access to is subjective and merely the opinion of someone. The cleanliness is however very important and it is easy to relate too. Unfortunately many labs are not providing this important information.

My philosophy is to use a premium oil from a reputable manufacture. I lean more toward large oil companies because they have more resources for development and testing. This isn't to say the small companies are not good, they just can't spend as much for development and testing.

Stinky

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:
That's true, I do change oil in 4 vehicles for my family, which is part of the reason for the huge stockpile.

BTW, I counted, and I have 44L worth of oil.

---

Hey man....make some "Chispa de Tren" out of it.....AKA "Moon Shine"

Rick

 

[twentynine]

Only posted here a few times but whatever the sickness is I GOT IT BAD! After reading about the Mobil 1 at Wally World I ask my wife to pick up a jug or 2. With standing instructions to buy a jug every time she visits, untill we have 4 or 5 jugs in my (What did you guys call it?) oil shrine. After reading the post above I kinda got the shakes, I closed my eyes and inventoried my OIL SHRINE. Got 8 to 10 qts. 10w-30 Havoline, 10 to 12 qts. 10w-30 Superflow, 3 lt. Yamalube 4str oil, 1 one gallon jug of 30w hd Ursa, 10 gallons of 10w hydraulic oil brand unknown, 1 gallon Yamalube TCW-3, several pints of 2str oil for chainsaw, 1 gallon bar and chain oil, 2 tubes Mobil synthetic grease, several cans of Never Sieze. And now 2 5qt jugs of Mobil 1 10w-30. Oh yeah and 3/4 gallon Marvel Mystry Oil, 1qt Lucas Oil Cond, 12qts Amsoil UTF, 2qts. 85w-140 Royal Purple gear lube, 1/2 gal. Dextron III, 3 cans WD-40, and 1 can of 3in1 oil. PLEASE HELP I can't help myself. I change oil on 5 autos, 1 tractor, 1 4str outboard, and various lawn implements. I NEED HELP>

 

[quadrun1]

LOL, you're at the right place.

BITOG, aka Oilaholics Anonymous!

Jason

 

[pscholte]

Just remember to keep your "oil shrines" climate controlled and contaminant free...then you know you really "got it bad!"