I’m running aftermarket under warranty. Nissan changed their verbiage to “equivelant” and idemitsu is that. Maybe the same. I’ve ran eneos, Oem, idemitsu and lubegaurd in my 18 for 100k trouble free miles. The lubegaurd was the only fluid ever to act abnormal, which amounted to temps being about 10 degrees higher. I dumped the stuff asap. The new cvts (2024) run way hotter than even my 21. Nissan thinks that condensated fluid played a part in early failures, so they tuned them hotter to burn it off. You can bet I’ll be changing fluid religiously on that car. Stay in color and don’t overfill by even a few ounces, change it every 20k and your cvt should live a long life.
Mitsubishi Jatco CVT8 on Nissan NS3 fluid?
- Thread starter Jarpin
- Start date
Actually, I worked in Nissan's engineering department for 21 years. And I have personal experience with a Jatco transmission shifting like garbage after using aftermarket fluid that met the service manual spec.
You may not have any problems, but then maybe you will. For me, I won't take chances again. I used Honda CVT fluid in my car's transmission, and will only use the factory fluid. Transmissions are not engines.
No disrespect, but you have no evidence showing that changing the fluid at 20k will do anything other than lighten your wallet.
Maybe not. But I have concrete evidence that going off of the owners manual will cook your cvt. I’d rather spend $60 on fluid once a year than the alternative.
Well, you do realize that the factory fluid is made to MEET the engineers specifications...not always EXCEED them. No auto manufacturer makes their own fluids, and if you do a little homework and a little due diligence, you might find the OE supplier brand that works even better. As @D1dad did, I just pulled the trigger on some closeout Eneos ECO CVT fluid, which I strongly believe is the OEM fluid supplier for JDM Mitsubishi CVTs (they are also owned by the parent Mitsubishi conglomerate group) so it stands to reason. As I have read on a Mitsubishi Mirage forum, an owner sent a sample of fresh Eneos in for professional lab analysis and found out that it had TWICE the amount of detergents in it's additive package than OEM brand CVT oil.
As a side note, I have yet to hear anything bad about Amsoil CVT fluid in ANY CVT transmission where it is listed to meet the specs. I'll think about it after warranty though.
There are many reasons why Nissan has been involved in so many class action lawsuits and crated the CVT "reputation" from the fallout. It would be great if they would come forward and explain what went wrong and how but I have a pretty good idea of what it was.
I'd love to hear about how special all these OEM CVT fluids are and how dangerous it is to believe in compatible products from companies like HPL, Valvoline, Amsoil, Castrol, Redline, etc, etc, etc.
I'd love to hear about how special all these OEM CVT fluids are and how dangerous it is to believe in compatible products from companies like HPL, Valvoline, Amsoil, Castrol, Redline, etc, etc, etc.
Curious. Then does Aisin and Jatco go to Idemitsu with a list of manufacturer requirements and tell them to blend something that is compatible/backwards compatible?I know nothing of the Mits side, but Idemitsu makes the Nissan N3 spec fluid for Nissan. The SDS lists Idemitsu directly as the manufacturer. They actually make most Nissan fluids I think - they make S, they used to make the J, etc.
Aisin makes transmissions, not fluid. I presume they might also get it from Idemitsu.
Idemitsu sells the same spec fluid. Unsure the price? https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/product/cvtf-type-n3
Z1 Motorsports sells the Nissan NS3 stuff. In the Nissan world Z1 is well known to be a good place to buy Nissan OEM stuff. They list the OEM at $17.50/quart. Ouch. I assume the dealer is that much or more.
I would only use OEM stuff during warranty, given the propensity of CVT's.
It's not as simple as "meet the engineering specifications". The engineers that tune the TCU, program the shift logic, do all this based on the OEM fluid. It comes down to small nuance, line pressures, friction characteristics of the fluid, timing down to milliseconds, how the fluid interacts within the valve body, etc. This cannot be defined by "engineering specifications" of the fluid.
I’ve always tracked my cvt temps in my 18 and 21 on road trips. Around town they just don’t get hot, which is what I believed was the killer, and it could be. While the 18 rogue would top out at 205 climbing a mountain in the Appalachians, my 21 Altima would barely hit 190….nothing catastrophic but warm. Enter my wife’s 24 Altima. That car would run @215 on a flat highway anytime the temp was above 70 degrees. A well known Nissan tech on some forums took my findings to Nissan themselves. He even tracked a new 24 at his dealership to verify it wasn’t a one off and it wasn’t. Nissan retuned the newer cvts to burn off condensation that was degrading the fluid. Makes sense as long as the fluid and cvt can take the heat. TBD if this was actually and always the issue. I have my doubts, but then again, I’m sure lots of time and research went into this. I’ll play along but I’m going to do spill and fills every spring just in case.
My 09 spun a cvt when I listened to my dealership telling me my fluid was in good shape, via Nissan consult. Luckily that trans was under extended warranty. That new cvt has had eneos and valvoline every spring since and now sets at close to 150k with no end in sight. These things aren’t made of glass, but do need to have fresh additives via spill and fills or double drain and fills if your extending the miles out more than I am. If Nissan would have been honest with customers instead of using “low cost of ownership”, maybe they could have avoided a reputation killing trans issue. Yet they’re fanatical about 20k brake fluid flushes? I’m not scared of a jatco in any way, especially since I understand their needs. FWIW, I had a Chrysler T&C that had worse trans issues and a powerstroke that kept throwing rear ends and was never used under severe circumstances.
Both issues happened under and out of warranty and neither manufacturer gave a crap when out of warranty. At least Nissan stepped up and extended their warranty’s.
So you're claiming that the foundation for designing and engineering the CVT starts with the fluid???
I thought the manufacturers solicit bids from Oil companies centering around the properties of the transmission, not the other way around...
I wouldn't say that Nissan "stepped up", I'm pretty sure they agreed to extend the warranty in exchange for not admitting fault in the class-action lawsuit. So Nissan didn't do anything "wrong" but here's an extended warranty for you.
No, it doesn't "starts with the fluid".
At some point during the design, and tuning, when programming the TCU, and how it sends signals to the control body, thus affecting how the transmission shifts and generally operates, small differences in different fluids can have a significant effect in how the transmission operates. Again, I've experienced this myself. I used the "speced" fluid, not the OEM fluid, and much to my surprise, the transmission never shifted correctly again.
I've read about various instances where different transmissions worked just fine on generic fluids. It just depends on the specific transmission, and how picky it is about small differences in fluid.
Well thats probably a better question for @Nessism1 ,but I assume that is the case. I know when the OEM's specifically wanted to move to a thinner oil with ILSAC GF6A, the OEM's and blenders worked together to define a spec that would work. Maybe they do that with ATF too?
My point however was considering Idemitsu is the known supplier for NS-3, then their own branded version I think is pretty reasonable to assume it also meets whatever spec. But just because Idemitsu makes NS-3 for Nissan, doesn't necessarily mean they make it for Aisin. It could be someone else - or does Aisin maybe even blend their own? I have never actually seen Aisin aftermarket fluid. I find it odd that if they do make fluid that they make it for a transmission that Aisin never had anything to do with. Aisin aftermarket fluid is new to me.
Your syntax/grammar is a little off, but I understand your main point. I feel pretty comfortable about my calculated decision with ENEOS for my first drain and fill, since it is a Mitsubishi company. I'll be a test mule. As an added safeguard, I'm going to snag a small sample of OEM fluid from the dealer service dept, and a small sample of my purchased ENEOS fluid and send both to Blackstone for an analysis prior to the drain and fill. As @martinq has stated, I'm not overpaying for dealer packaging if I don't have to.
They stepped up. My 09 had the cvt replaced @95k and my 18 cvt was extended as well, even though my tech said they weren’t replacing enough for the techs to make some freebie money. I had a Chrysler T&C and my daughter had a Dodge Journey. I wouldn't have a Stelantis product if I won it at the elks. I’d sell it. My son in-laws company Buick has been in the shop for 2 weeks and they can’t figure out why the heated seats won’t shut off. Nissan screwed up by not telling its customers that the transmissions need serviced. Honda cvts were supposed to be serviced every 20k, if I’m not mistaken. They didn’t have issues.
The 10th gen Civic's, like my 2017, throw the CVT fluid change code at about 60,000 miles. Changing the oil at 20,000 is crazy.
Honestly I would drop the CVT or AT pan within the first year / 5k to inspect and clean the magnets. The majority of wear particles are generated when new and then taper as the system breaks in. The first years are the most important.
After three annual pan drops I'd almost feel safe following the mfg severe-service maintenance intervals.
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