Oem specified manual transmission oil superseded - Renault Elf NFJ 75W-80

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Hi, I'm trying to decide what oil to use in the first manual transmission oil change that one of our fleet will be getting (2014 Dacia), its on the factory fluid with no issues at 40k miles.

The owner's manual specifies "Tranself NFJ 75w-80 API GL4+"
aka "Elf Tranself NFJ 75W-80 EP Semi Synthetic Transmission Fluid"

This oil is no longer available and has been replaced by "Elf Tranself NFX SAE 75W EP Synthetic Technology Transmission Fluid".
This new fluid states: "Officially approved and recommended by Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi for Sx, Jxx, TLx, NDx, NDk1, Pxx, DBx gearboxes."

My vehicle does indeed have a Jxx gearbox.

It even has a sticker on it that says it replaces the original oil:
1647279509895.jpg



Given that Elf is OEM for Renault and I've always used the Elf engine oil for 50k miles, I wanted to use the factory transmission oil too.

If you were in my position, would you find another 75W-80 GL4+ oil (such as from Motul or Total) or would you use the 75W Elf oil that has superseded the original fill?
Any insights into why monograde manual transmission oil is becoming more common?

I would ask the local dealer, but they are pretty useless and have lost my trust. I'm not interested in warranty etc. I just want to maintain the car to the best standard possible.

Thanks!
 
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I'd buy NFJ but you won't have issues with NFX. It's more like NFJ than NFP, less phosphorus and more molybdenum, thinner but real working conditions will be similar.
 

geetar

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@ceecbitog but that's the issue, NFJ and NFP are no longer available and have been replaced by NFX.
More molybdenum sounds like a good thing? My only real understanding of that is that its a desirable thing when selecting engine oil for Toyotas. Not sure what less phosphorus means or where to even find that information. How about the fact that only one grade is written on the bottle?

@MolaKule also curious to know that!
 

geetar

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From the Product info page of the new NFX:

Note: This product replaces Tranself NFP 75W-80 and Tranself NFJ 75W-80 and covers their targeted applications.

Benefits:​

  • Up to 0.25% fuel economy with an increase of 22% wear protection compared to precedent products Tranself NFP & NFJ
  • Advanced protection for synchro components
  • Outstanding resistance to mechanical shearing
  • Extreme-pressure (EP) and anti-wear capabilities enable gears to function under the most severe stresses
  • Unrivalled thermal performance, guaranteeing a stable product even under heavy loads and at high temperature
  • Particularly stable coefficient of friction ensures satisfactory synchronisation in all conditions
  • High viscosity index and low pour point ensures perfect lubrication at all temperatures
  • Very high antifoaming power
  • Inert to seals


source: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-217715...-synthetic-technology-transmission-fluid.aspx
 
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I use Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80 in our Dacia Logan with no issues.

You likley have a TL4 gearbox like our 1.5DCi Logan has which is covered....

"Officially approved and recommended by Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi for Sx, Jxx, TLx, NDx, NDk1, Pxx, DBx gearboxes"
 
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Any insights into why monograde manual transmission oil is becoming more common?

Actually many modern so-called 75W MTFs have a fairly high viscosity index,
in some cases higher than many 75W-90 lubricants.
If you like Elf just give Elf Tranself NFX SAE 75W EP a try.
There is no way to say if Mo content of a MTF is a good thing or not. MTFs are
formulated to provide suffcient friction for the synchros.
.
 

MolaKule

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It appears the Elf series of MTF 100C viscosities went from 8.5 cSt to 7.3 cSt and now down to 6.5 cSt for the NFX.

Moly in any form is not a good component additive in synchronized transmissions because it competes with the Calcium/Magnesium and non-metallic organic friction modifiers.
 

geetar

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I use Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80 in our Dacia Logan with no issues.

You likley have a TL4 gearbox like our 1.5DCi Logan has which is covered....

"Officially approved and recommended by Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi for Sx, Jxx, TLx, NDx, NDk1, Pxx, DBx gearboxes"
Thanks, the Fuchs seems well priced too. The petrol 0.9L has the JH3351 box, I think your diesel gets a different one but the oil recommendation is the same regardless.

Actually many modern so-called 75W MTFs have a fairly high viscosity index,
in some cases higher than many 75W-90 lubricants.
If you like Elf just give Elf Tranself NFX SAE 75W EP a try.
There is no way to say if Mo content of a MTF is a good thing or not. MTFs are
formulated to provide suffcient friction for the synchros.
.
My only reason for liking Elf is that its the factory fill so it was always easier to just stick to that. At this point it seems the Elf offering is further away from the factory fill than what Fuchs, Motul, or Total offer at a reasonable price so I have got to think about that. I don't want to change the way it drives and have to do the job again.
It appears the Elf series of MTF 100C viscosities went from 8.5 cSt to 7.3 cSt and now down to 6.5 cSt for the NFX.

Moly in any form is not a good component additive in synchronized transmissions because it competes with the Calcium/Magnesium and non-metallic organic friction modifiers.
Are those viscosities desirable?
And re moly, what about moly gearbox oil additives such as Liquimoly 1040?
 
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Thanks, the Fuchs seems well priced too. The petrol 0.9L has the JH3351 box, I think your diesel gets a different one but the oil recommendation is the same regardless.

Well if it helps, we used to have a 2018 Sandero with the 0.9TCe which I also swapped out to Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80 and that was fine also!

 
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geetar

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Well if it helps, we used to have a 2018 Sandero with the 0.9TCe which I also swapped out to Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80 and that was fine also!

Aha a Dacia nut, nice to see that the Fram filter looks exactly the same as the Purflux ones I've been using - both pretty difficult to get a hold of from UK suppliers nowadays (Renault will sell you the Purflux one in an expensive box). I didn't pay so much attention to the oil that came out of ours on the first change, regretting that since seeing your photos. Admittedly we did wait until 3k miles to do it, and the gearbox oil has never been done so we shall see what comes out!

I am heading towards a Fuchs or Motul 75w80 over this new Elf oil, thanks for that, good to know you had a good experience with that.
 
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After reading Dacia and Renault forums for some time over the years I notice that their gearboxes do like to act up with the use of alternative oils. I would take care to use an oil that is very much alike the original fill. If problems occur, then just get the correct Elf one. Or save yourself the hassle and get it right away.
 

MolaKule

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Are those viscosities desirable?
And re moly, what about moly gearbox oil additives such as Liquimoly 1040?
The general trend, even in manual gearboxes, is to reduce MTF viscosity 1 or 2 cSt lower to gain a very marginal mpg improvement for overall fleet mileage marketing.

As to any moly additive in MTF's, No.

The original Elf NFJ had a 100C viscosity of 8.5 cSt which puts it up there with the following MTF's:

Castrol Syntrans V FE (8.0cSt)
Redline DCTF Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid (8.1 cSt)
BG Synchroshift II (8.2 cSt)
Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 8.8 cSt
RAVENOL PSA (8.9 cSt)
Mopar MS-9417 MTL 9.0 cSt
Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.0 cSt
 
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geetar

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The general trend, even in manual gearboxes, is to reduce MTF viscosity 1 or 2 cSt lower to gain a very marginal mpg for overall fleet mileage improvements.

As to any moly additive in MTF's, No.

The original Elf NFJ had a 100C viscosity of 8.5 cSt which puts it up there with the following MTF's:

Castrol Syntrans V FE (8.0cSt)
Redline DCTF Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid (8.1 cSt)
BG Synchroshift II (8.2 cSt)
Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 8.8 cSt
RAVENOL PSA (8.9 cSt)
Mopar MS-9417 MTL 9.0 cSt
Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.0 cSt
Super useful, thank you.

Elf NFJ 100C viscosity is 8.5 cSt, the new Elf NFX is 6.5 cSt.

Knowing what the original fill is and what the trend for is for newer fluids, the Castrol looks ideal as its no higher than the original, but close enough... and its discontinued! They have also replaced it with something similar to NFX.

The search continues. some of the ones you have suggested are US brands that aren't readily available over here so I probably won't pay extra for importing them, but will continue to look for something similar from the Euro brands. The Ravenol PSA has approvals from the other French manufacturers, but there is also RAVENOL MTF-2 SAE 75W-80 which has 7,4 cSt at 100C. Seems to support the idea of lower viscosity, without going the full hog of the NFX.
 
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The Ravenol PSA has approvals from the other French manufacturers, but there is also RAVENOL MTF-2 SAE 75W-80 which has 7,4 cSt at 100C. Seems to support the idea of lower viscosity, without going the full hog of the NFX.

As a hint, Castrol Syntrans V-FE 75W-80 is now sold as Castrol Transmax V 75W-80.
Had it in my GTI for more than three years and it felt fine. Marginally different shift
feel compared to OE VW 052 527, but all in all just as excellent.
I had Ravenol MTF-2 75W-80 in my Mini's Getrag gearbox for two years and it felt
best from four MTFs I tried so far. By far the best. IMHO both Castrol Transmax and
Ravenol MTF-2 are worth a try for your Dacia.
.
 
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Aha a Dacia nut, nice to see that the Fram filter looks exactly the same as the Purflux ones I've been using - both pretty difficult to get a hold of from UK suppliers nowadays (Renault will sell you the Purflux one in an expensive box). I didn't pay so much attention to the oil that came out of ours on the first change, regretting that since seeing your photos. Admittedly we did wait until 3k miles to do it, and the gearbox oil has never been done so we shall see what comes out!

I am heading towards a Fuchs or Motul 75w80 over this new Elf oil, thanks for that, good to know you had a good experience with that.

Love me a Dacia, I do!

We bought a 2016 Duster Laureate 1.5DCi 4WD and then part ex'd it in early 2019 for a brand new (late 2018 build) Sandero 0.9TCe Comfort.

The Sandero had an issue where we usually ran it on 'Super Unleaded' fuel, the ECU would adjust the timing and whatnot and the car would perform better. If my Wife filled it up with normal unleaded fuel, then ECU would take so long to retard the timing that it would knock to the point that it would destroy the spark plugs and start misfiring under load. I kept telling them exactly why the spark plugs were failing and I suspected a knock sensor or programming issue. On the 3rd lot of spark plugs Renault agreed they have no idea why the spark plugs were failing and gave us a full refund for the car.

My Wife ended up daily driving my 'weekend car', a 2003 Mondeo ST220 until she realised the £100/week fuel bill was getting silly so I bought her a nearly-4-year-old 2017 Dacia Logan MCV 1.5DCi Laureate back early last year with 100k on the clock for £3k. It's been a solid and reliable car. Towed a 1100kgs caravan with it earlier this week, while I think the car is a bit light for it, it pulled it without issue.

Worst mistake we made was getting rid of that initial Duster. Was a fantastic car!
 
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@ceecbitog but that's the issue, NFJ and NFP are no longer available and have been replaced by NFX.
More molybdenum sounds like a good thing? My only real understanding of that is that its a desirable thing when selecting engine oil for Toyotas. Not sure what less phosphorus means or where to even find that information. How about the fact that only one grade is written on the bottle?

Don't worry about additives, as said it's very similar to NFJ, little changes. Other Elf had moly too. It's 75w so thinner, NFJ was more complex formulation with group II/III + little PAO, NFX is mainly group II/II+. I'd use NFX with no problem. If you want other, closer to NFJ is Total 75w80 series (BV, Trans 8 etc). Other GL4 or GL4+ will work good but usually additive pkg is absolutly different.
 

geetar

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As a hint, Castrol Syntrans V-FE 75W-80 is now sold as Castrol Transmax V 75W-80.
Had it in my GTI for more than three years and it felt fine. Marginally different shift
feel compared to OE VW 052 527, but all in all just as excellent.
I had Ravenol MTF-2 75W-80 in my Mini's Getrag gearbox for two years and it felt
best from four MTFs I tried so far. By far the best. IMHO both Castrol Transmax and
Ravenol MTF-2 are worth a try for your Dacia.
.
Yeah that Castrol 75W80 is unavailable to buy anywhere, I can see it on the Castrol website and can access the PDS, but none of the national chains of car parts shops have it showing as available, otherwise it does seem like the best choice, even out of Ravenol and Total offerings.

Love me a Dacia, I do!

We bought a 2016 Duster Laureate 1.5DCi 4WD and then part ex'd it in early 2019 for a brand new (late 2018 build) Sandero 0.9TCe Comfort.

The Sandero had an issue where we usually ran it on 'Super Unleaded' fuel, the ECU would adjust the timing and whatnot and the car would perform better. If my Wife filled it up with normal unleaded fuel, then ECU would take so long to retard the timing that it would knock to the point that it would destroy the spark plugs and start misfiring under load. I kept telling them exactly why the spark plugs were failing and I suspected a knock sensor or programming issue. On the 3rd lot of spark plugs Renault agreed they have no idea why the spark plugs were failing and gave us a full refund for the car.

My Wife ended up daily driving my 'weekend car', a 2003 Mondeo ST220 until she realised the £100/week fuel bill was getting silly so I bought her a nearly-4-year-old 2017 Dacia Logan MCV 1.5DCi Laureate back early last year with 100k on the clock for £3k. It's been a solid and reliable car. Towed a 1100kgs caravan with it earlier this week, while I think the car is a bit light for it, it pulled it without issue.

Worst mistake we made was getting rid of that initial Duster. Was a fantastic car!
Haha nice, ours has only ever had regular fuel, we've had it since 2014 and the only real problem we had was a coolant leak that was easily fixed by replacing the plastic coolant matrix / thermostat housing thing. The actual leak was the gasket, but I just bought the whole thing. I think we will drive this one into the ground.
Don't worry about additives, as said it's very similar to NFJ, little changes. Other Elf had moly too. It's 75w so thinner, NFJ was more complex formulation with group II/III + little PAO, NFX is mainly group II/II+. I'd use NFX with no problem. If you want other, closer to NFJ is Total 75w80 series (BV, Trans 8 etc). Other GL4 or GL4+ will work good but usually additive pkg is absolutly different.
OK that is good to know, I am trying to decide whether the additives are more important, or the viscosity. If its additives then I will go for NFX, otherwise I would probably go for Castrol, Total or something else.
 
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