Microgreen - possibly stunning development!

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
When I first looked at the design, I was very skeptical about the bypass filter portion. I believe it is simply too small to catch the amount of dirt that passes through the full flow portion of the filter.

The real problem here is they validated the original design and then changed the design to reduce costs but then did not validate the changes.

I would not trust them unless they produce ISO 4548-12 test results. I don't think they did the tests. If they did the tests, why would they not release the results unless the filter flunked the test?

Curious, how do you know or are qualified to say what they did or didn't do?

Should I not trust Cummins? I have no 4548-12 from them.

UD


In spite of everyones attempts to get ISO 4548-12 test results from them, they have never been successful getting any ISO test results. There is not one post made on BITOG backed by ISO 4548-12 test results.


Actually they have said it in emails to a few of us- as does Norb they claim that it is 99%@5M.

You didnt answer my question though.

UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Assion also left a review on the MG510-9 filter.

Notice how he points out that it doesn't have a bypass valve despite the packaging saying it does.

https://www.amazon.com/microGreen-MG510-...ype=all_reviews

Quote:
Indeed this filter does not meet the filtration efficiency as claimed by the filter provider.
Tests performed on the full-flow cartridge media and on the micro-filter media are confirming, the MG 510-9 is working just as a normal filter. The claim of unbeatable extraordinary filter performance far beyond the capabilities of traditional filters is massively exaggerated and untruthful. SOMS has so far since years refused to provide proof for its extraordinary oil cleanliness claims of its spin-on filter series. Furthermore this MG 510-9 filter does not provide a by-pass valve, but nevertheless its packaging is presenting one. The full-flow media is Absolute Rating 20µm as well as the micro filter media Absolute Rating 20µm. Usually a 20µm rated filter makes it impossible to capture large numbers of particles substantially smaller than 20 microns. Unfortunately most of harmful minor particles remain in the oil. And for comparing: The efficiency of SOMS Spin-on filter models before 2013 was 99% @ 5µm after 10,000 road miles additional testing and not only after some 45 minutes labor testing at ISO 4548-12 multiple pass. Questions? Norbert Assion / [email protected]


Interesting - seems like Norb is on a roll.

I wonder if he leave the ones alone he's tested or knows are the same ?

seems like him not saying something is becoming as relevant as the one he says something about.

UD

 

[bbhero]

Uncle Dave... You are one of the best guys on here. Always good to see you on here.

 

[CharlieBauer]

I looked at DBMaster's 30,000 mile 3x Microgreen UOA found here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...I_-#Post3884300

Firstly, he started the run approx Oct 2013. Did he buy all the filters at that time? If so, they could be the original filters.

Secondly, the insolubles are at 0.2%. Impressive for 30,000 miles. Is that what we would expect to see if the filters were 99% at 5 microns?

Lastly, it's interesting that Iron and the increased viscosity are similar to SOMS own findings at that mileage in the paper I linked to in the OP.

The key question is, what were the manufacture dates of the 3 microgreen filters used in that run?

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I'm still continuing to use them as directed, with the 30,000 mile OCI. I have the system going on three vehicles in the family now.


May I ask a couple questions? Do you use the MG200-6, and if so is it made in China? It looks different than the 101-1 I tried before. What is this sale they run? I see I can get the 200-6 for 10.99 on Amazon. That's not bad in itself but always looking for sales. Thanks.


I use the MG101-7 on two of the vehicles and the MG201-7 on one of them. I do buy them during sales but don't remember the exact prices. I think I've paid about $10 each during the various sales. I keep at least one of each on the shelf in reserve. The first couple I bought were made in Mexico, but the newer ones are made in China. I find out about the sales via their email distribution list which I'll bet you can be added to by sending an email request to [email protected].


I'd like to correct my last statement. The two I have left in my garage were made in Mexico, as were all of them I have purchased since 2014.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Uncle Dave... You are one of the best guys on here. Always good to see you on here.


Thanks

bunch of good guys here.

UD

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
I looked at DBMaster's 30,000 mile 3x Microgreen UOA found here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...I_-#Post3884300

Firstly, he started the run approx Oct 2013. Did he buy all the filters at that time? If so, they could be the original filters.

Secondly, the insolubles are at 0.2%. Impressive for 30,000 miles. Is that what we would expect to see if the filters were 99% at 5 microns?

Lastly, it's interesting that Iron and the increased viscosity are similar to SOMS own findings at that mileage in the paper I linked to in the OP.

The key question is, what were the manufacture dates of the 3 microgreen filters used in that run?


Unfortunately, I'm never going to know the answer to that. I'll consider a UOA on my current oil after it hits 30K. I'm at about 12K now so it could easily be another year before that happens. 8-{D>

 

[CharlieBauer]

Can you remember when you purchased them? A 2013 purchase of all three might mean you got the original licensed product.

Btw in light of the possibility that more recent filters may not be the same, are you sure you want to wait until 30k to do a UOA?

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Can you remember when you purchased them? A 2013 purchase of all three might mean you got the original licensed product.

Btw in light of the possibility that more recent filters may not be the same, are you sure you want to wait until 30k to do a UOA?


I can only take a stab at that. I buy them in the two-packs so I would have bought the first two around late 2013/early 2014. I would have then had to buy two more to have one more to complete the first cycle. I'm thinking I bought those in early 2015. They have changed the box artwork a bit in the past year, or so.

And, I'm not worried about it. I'm actually on my THIRD 30K run. I did one since the posted UOA and did not get analysis on the oil I dumped after that one. I used M1 0W-20 AFE initially, but subsequent changes have been done with M1 0W-20 EP. EP was not available to me in 2013.

 

[CharlieBauer]

Here's an interesting 2016 UOA direct from Microgreen's website.

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/user_area/content_media/raw/T.PeckUberOilReport.jpg

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/About/Testimonials.aspx

Sure it's an improvement over the previous UOA on M1 & a Wix filter, but at 9,233 miles, the insolubles are 0.2 and the TBN is 2.7. Apparently after half a quart of make up oil added.

That is similar to DBMaster's UOA at 30,000 miles.

Is this an example of a difference between original and economized microgreen filters?

 

[UncleDave]

Seems to me there are too many variables to draw many conclusions - half the mileage , different oil, tbn doesn't usually deplete linearly anyway.

Im 15K miles into a sump on my second MG. I may pull a sample just for snicks.

UD

 

[CharlieBauer]

Here are a few pertinent quotes from the Microgreen website. I found it interesting that they say the full flow filter is for 25-40 microns.

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Customer-Service/faqs.aspx

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Products/microgreen-spin-on-oil-filter.aspx#category-tabs1


Quote:
The first stage is a full flow element filter that removes harmful particles between 25-40 microns in size, while a second stage microfilter removes particles down to two microns in size.

The microGreen vehicle engine oil filter is based on the patented technology for the Spin-On Microfilter System® (SOMS®)

The microfilter also features a high pore volume with 2-5 micron-size pore openings.

ISO 4548-12 multi-pass tests have been conducted to determine the filtration efficiency and dirt holding capacity of the convention pleated full-flow filter element inside the microGreen filter. The results demonstrate that the microGreen filter exceeds the necessary performance requirements for extended use for both filtration efficiency and capacity.

 

[DBMaster]

I am trying to do less over-thinking in my life these days. Just remember what the first four letters in analysis spell. I enjoy rational, intelligent discourse, but sometimes I just like to take things at face value and go with it. The microGreen claims are one of those things. I learned about these filters on this forum. Mobil 1 and Amsoil both claimed 25,000 mile OCIs at points in their histories. I've only had three cars in my 38 years of driving and I've never killed one due to lack of lubrication. So, I choose to trust MG's claims and enjoy the significant reduction in waste oil and time spent under the car. I get so tired of seeing "I enjoy working on my vehicles" as a reason to over-maintain and waste.

I enjoy saving money and being able to do things myself. If I owned something that never required maintenance or repair I would not miss those activities. Sorry.

 

[CharlieBauer]

I like the idea of the microgreen filter as well and believed their claims.

Was thinking of running it after my Fram Ultra. Not so sure now.

In terms of saving time and mess, I'm all for that too. That's why I put a Fumoto on and now that it's on, the filter removal is the messiest part. Which is why I put on a Fram Ultra - it'll be on for multiple ocis because of my low mileage and because it is full synthetic, it won't degrade.

If microgreen can't guarantee to me that it'll give better filtration than an Ultra, then I'm not interested in the mess and hassle of changing it more often.

 

[CharlieBauer]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Seems to me there are too many variables to draw many conclusions - half the mileage , different oil, tbn doesn't usually deplete linearly anyway.

Im 15K miles into a sump on my second MG. I may pull a sample just for snicks.

UD


It's a third of the mileage compared to DBMasters.

Also, that UOA itself shows a huge increase in Copper when running the microgreen. It went from 8ppm to 36ppm.

Iron went down in half, but who knows if that's the M1 effect? He was also running a xw20 and moved to a 5w30.

But the biggest thing to consider is if you compare it to the UOA you posted and your own statements on insolubles.

Your UOA had a TBN of 9.9 and trace insolubles. This one is nowhere near that. Maybe putting on a new filter would clean the oil more but can you see that oil running another 20,000 miles?

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Seems to me there are too many variables to draw many conclusions - half the mileage , different oil, tbn doesn't usually deplete linearly anyway.

Im 15K miles into a sump on my second MG. I may pull a sample just for snicks.

UD


It's a third of the mileage compared to DBMasters.

Also, that UOA itself shows a huge increase in Copper when running the microgreen. It went from 8ppm to 36ppm.

Iron went down in half, but who knows if that's the M1 effect? He was also running a xw20 and moved to a 5w30.

But the biggest thing to consider is if you compare it to the UOA you posted and your own statements on insolubles.

Your UOA had a TBN of 9.9 and trace insolubles. This one is nowhere near that. Maybe putting on a new filter would clean the oil more but can you see that oil running another 20,000 miles?


DB is at 12K my lexus at 15

the UOA I posted up was on a diesel genset not an auto. 169 hours is about about the equivilant of 10K of mileage - I was going to run out the hours and find the condemnation point.

UD

 

[CharlieBauer]

I was talking about the result of DB's 30k mile UOA.

At 30k miles after 3 microgreen filters, he had similar insolubles and TBN as the person who did less than 10k miles.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
I looked at DBMaster's 30,000 mile 3x Microgreen UOA found here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...I_-#Post3884300

Firstly, he started the run approx Oct 2013. Did he buy all the filters at that time? If so, they could be the original filters.

Secondly, the insolubles are at 0.2%. Impressive for 30,000 miles. Is that what we would expect to see if the filters were 99% at 5 microns?


Recall he used 3 filters at 10K change intervals over that 30K run on the oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Here are a few pertinent quotes from the Microgreen website. I found it interesting that they say the full flow filter is for 25-40 microns.

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Customer-Service/faqs.aspx

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Products/microgreen-spin-on-oil-filter.aspx#category-tabs1

Quote:
The first stage is a full flow element filter that removes harmful particles between 25-40 microns in size, while a second stage microfilter removes particles down to two microns in size.

The microGreen vehicle engine oil filter is based on the patented technology for the Spin-On Microfilter System® (SOMS®)

The microfilter also features a high pore volume with 2-5 micron-size pore openings.

ISO 4548-12 multi-pass tests have been conducted to determine the filtration efficiency and dirt holding capacity of the convention pleated full-flow filter element inside the microGreen filter. The results demonstrate that the microGreen filter exceeds the necessary performance requirements for extended use for both filtration efficiency and capacity.

That part in red from Microgreen basically says they don't want to tell you the actual resulting ISO test xx% @ yy microns number for some reason. All they say is that the main element was ISO 4548-12 tested, but they dance around the resulting efficiency numbers.

As mentioned in other threads about the Microgreen filters, I'd like to see the same car do the 30K run on the oil with using 3 Ultras (or maybe just 2 since they're rated up to 20K now) instead of Microgreens to compare the UOAs and see if there's really a difference.

 

[UncleDave]

agreed - they basically tell you little to nothing with that statement.


UD