Michelin LTX MS/2

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
So reading all this, I think the problem is not the tires but something else.

First, tire vibrations would be there all the time at certain speeds. It would not be intermittent, but it would be speed related. Get to that certain speed and it should show up every time. Accelerating, or coasting should make no difference.

Also, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that ALL the tires have the same problem. What is MOST likely is that ONE tire would be a problem - and not only would RoadForcing the assembly isolate it, swapping the tires around the vehicle should reveal which one it is as well.

So I don't think your vibration has to do with tires. But we will see when you replace them. If the vibration remains, then the problem is something else.


What else would it be?

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
I don't see how that much (or little) inside wear, after that many miles, is such a huge issue.

That's less wear than on the inside of my tires, after 45,000 miles, and mine was aligned after the front end was worked on.


Yeah, I'm more inclined to think that inside wear is more the result of aggressive cornering than an alignment problem. Couple of reasons I say that - number one, it's never pulled, number two, I like taking curves, and the truck has always had great steering

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer


Yeah, I'm more inclined to think that inside wear is more the result of aggressive cornering than an alignment problem. Couple of reasons I say that - number one, it's never pulled, number two, I like taking curves, and the truck has always had great steering

Do you rotate? I ask because I probably drive the Expedition in a similar manner to how you drive your truck but the tires wear flat. Always. I rotate them roughly every 10K.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: john_pifer


Yeah, I'm more inclined to think that inside wear is more the result of aggressive cornering than an alignment problem. Couple of reasons I say that - number one, it's never pulled, number two, I like taking curves, and the truck has always had great steering

Do you rotate? I ask because I probably drive the Expedition in a similar manner to how you drive your truck but the tires wear flat. Always. I rotate them roughly every 10K.


Yeah, I try to do it about every oil change (10,000 mi) but lately I haven't - it's probably been 15,000 mi or more since I last rotated.

Incidentally I looked at the back tires and the insides aren't worn as much.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: john_pifer


Yeah, I'm more inclined to think that inside wear is more the result of aggressive cornering than an alignment problem. Couple of reasons I say that - number one, it's never pulled, number two, I like taking curves, and the truck has always had great steering

Do you rotate? I ask because I probably drive the Expedition in a similar manner to how you drive your truck but the tires wear flat. Always. I rotate them roughly every 10K.


Yeah, I try to do it about every oil change (10,000 mi) but lately I haven't - it's probably been 15,000 mi or more since I last rotated.

Incidentally I looked at the back tires and the insides aren't worn as much.


on a solid diff they always wear pretty flat

The fronts tend to wear on the outside edges, which is what rotating them is supposed to even out in theory, lol

 

[john_pifer]

Yeah, that inside wear is probably from not rotating them in a while.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
What else would it be?...


CV Joint or U joint may be? Angle of driveshaft? Hard to tell without further investigation.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
What else would it be?...


CV Joint or U joint may be? Angle of driveshaft? Hard to tell without further investigation.



Nah, it's a 2WD truck, and I replaced the U-joints a while back.

The vibes are coming from the wheels/tires.

 

[mrsilv04]

John-

Do you have spare that is the same size as the other four tires?

I'd start by putting the spare on, and then move it from position to position, until the problem goes away... and then you'll know which one is the problem.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
John-

Do you have spare that is the same size as the other four tires?

I'd start by putting the spare on, and then move it from position to position, until the problem goes away... and then you'll know which one is the problem.


Great thinking!

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
John-

Do you have spare that is the same size as the other four tires?

I'd start by putting the spare on, and then move it from position to position, until the problem goes away... and then you'll know which one is the problem.


No, when I bought these tires, I went +1 on the sidewall.

(Original was 265/70-16, current set is 265/75-16.)

But I've tried swapping around wheels and couldn't get a significant improvement.

Besides, the steering wheel always vibrates right after I get the tires rotated/balanced.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
......But I've tried swapping around wheels and couldn't get a significant improvement.....

3 thoughts:

1) If swapping the tires around doesn't do anything, it is extremely unlikely that it is the tires. Besides, if the tires were causing the vibration, the seat would be vibrating, too.

Quote:
.....Besides, the steering wheel always vibrates right after I get the tires rotated/balanced.

2) Does that mean it gets better the more you drive? And that when you rotate, the vibration comes back?

3) I wonder if using the larger tire changed the front geometry such that you are now getting a shimmy.

 

[john_pifer]

No, it doesn't get better the more I drive.

I'd be surprised if it changed the front end geometry that much. After all, Toyota puts different size tires on that same rim. The standard, non-TRD Off-Road PreRunner comes with a 245/75-16 mounted on the same wheels.

I know it sounds like I'm dismissing every suggestion y'all make - I'm not trying to; one of the things I really appreciate about BITOG is that it's a forum with grownups, most of whom are very knowledgeable and will take time to think about a problem and help out. I appreciate that.

At this point, with almost 70K on the tires, it's almost moot, though.

You know, I always had the tires rotated and balanced at the same Sears location. But now I've moved to a different city; maybe the guys at the Sears in Memphis just sucked at balancing tires or their balancer was out of cal?

I'm off for the next 3 days after today...I think I'll take the Taco over to the local Sears here in NashVegas and see if they do any better.

Thanks, guys, for all the comments.

 

[john_pifer]

Well, I went to Sears Auto Center today to get the tires rotated and balanced (free "lifetime" rotate and balance comes with the purchase of 4 new tires).

The guy came back and said he couldn't do it because the tires were too worn (I knew they were getting close to limits).

I told him they weren't to the wear bars yet. He took me out to the shop to show me. Sure enough, the right rear was to the wear bars in several places and also exhibited cupping (wear in the center of the tire).

I was a little surprised by the cupping, as that's usually caused by excess tire pressure. If anything, I thought I was running too little pressure. (When I bought the tires I called Michelin and asked if I could run less pressure to improve the ride, since I went +1 on the sidewall. They came back and said I could run 3 psi less than Toyota calls for.)

Anyway, the tires have 69,120 miles on them and Michelin's warranty is 70,000 miles. I asked the Sears rep to call Michelin and see what they would do for me. The customer service babe at Michelin had the Sears rep go out and make three separate measurements on the tread of each tire (outside, inside and center). He gave her the measurements. She came back and said they weren't liable for any kind of warranty adjustment on the tires, because the tires already had almost 70,000 miles on them, were down to 2 or 3/32" in places, and the uneven wear indicated mistreatment by me, which she described as infrequent rotation/balancing, heavy use, and aggressive driving and cornering. (LOL, I really had no argument to put up against the aggressive driving accusation, because I do like to have fun in my truck

The Sears rep vouched for me that the tires would never balance and explained to her that he had records of every visit I made to Sears to attempt to have the tires balanced. Finally the Michelin babe offered a 10% discount. Sears was already offering 10% due to the unsatisfactory wear, so that would add up to 20%. I got on the horn, explained to the Michelin babe that I was not happy and that I've spent beaucoups of $$$ with them (motorcycle and auto), and that I wanted them to do better. She went and talked to her manager (I swear, they hire ex-car salesmen to answer their phones), came back and asked me what I thought was fair. I said 30%. She said, hold on, let me go talk to my manager. (It was actually getting comical between me and the Sears rep by now...I told him, "watch, she'll come back with 20%".)

She came back with 20%, and I accepted.

Bottom line, I get a new set of M/S IIs for 30% off retail. Hopefully they'll balance.

P.S. My appointment to have the tires mounted isn't till tomorrow night...do y'all think their offer was fair?

 

[CapriRacer]

Yes!! Not only do I think the offer was fair, but you handled it beautifully. I can't think of a better way to do it, and I think you got the best that could have been got.

Oh and it will be interesting what happens to the vibration. If you happen to remember, see if you can get the RoadForce values out of the balancer (If they use that). Prediction: Nothing.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Great customer service. I would just wonder what 'retail' price is, I'm a bit skeptical of this but if you like the deal then good for you!

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Great customer service. I would just wonder what 'retail' price is, I'm a bit skeptical of this but if you like the deal then good for you!



Retail is $194.99/tire minus a $70.00 discount when you buy 4.

The Sears rep told me the computer wouldn't allow him to use the $70.00 coupon since he was adjusting the warranty. I don't understand that - I said I thought that shouldn't have anything to do with it.

 

[john_pifer]

I was quoted $737 out the door.

 

[john_pifer]

UPDATE:

Had 4 new LTX-M/S II in the same size (265/75-16) installed on the Taco a few minutes ago. Jumped on the interstate and got up to about 80 mph; no steering wheel shaking or vibration whatsoever.

Smooth as glass!

 

[OVERKILL]

Snow update today. We got a fair dumping last night so the roads weren't great this AM. As many know I'm a great advocate of snow tires but also a big fan of the LTX M/S and M/S2 tires and their performance in snow and on ice.

Today I was driving over to pick up our daughter on one of the un-plowed city streets that is on a relatively steep grade (if Indyian reads this, it is Steward headed toward Parkhill). The house we were stopping at is just as the grade starts to get steep. I pulled into the snow bank that was the shoulder, which was about 2ft deep. Had the Expedition in 4HI.

As I sat there for about 15 minutes while my wife got our daughter I watched many cars on this hill. I saw an S10 with snow tires drive up the hill sideways with a good run at it. I saw a Fiesta with snow tires get about 1/2 way up, go sideways, spin around and then drive back down. I saw a Sienna with snow tires try and make a turn, stop, start sliding, go sideways, almost go on the sidewalk and then go down the hill.

I'm not on snow tires, just LTX M/S2's. But I do have 6,000lbs and 4x4. Pulled effortlessly out of the snow bank and drove straight up the hill, I even stopped where the Sienna had slid to see if it was particularly bad there and had no issue getting going again and continuing on my way.

Do I think the LTX M/S2's are better than snow tires? No. But I think they are excellent on slippery surfaces and combined with a heavy vehicle and 4x4, it makes the vehicle more capable than many vehicles with snows that lack 4x4. Especially on a grade.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
UPDATE:

Had 4 new LTX-M/S II in the same size (265/75-16) installed on the Taco a few minutes ago. Jumped on the interstate and got up to about 80 mph; no steering wheel shaking or vibration whatsoever.

Smooth as glass!


Great to hear! Nothing beats 'new shoes'...