Michelin Introduces New "X-Ice Snow"

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Nope. In some european countries such as Austria - yes, the minimum depth for a tyre to yount as adequate winter tyre is 4mm. In other countries the legal limit can be as low as 1.6mmm (for example Germany).
In Bosnia law specifically says minimum 4mm for winter tires and 1.6,mm for summer tires. I think in Germany is same.
 
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I would not call wet performance of Xi3 excellent. It is very good for studless tire but all seasons and winter performance tires beat them.
CR lists them red (two down arrows aka the lowest rating) for wet braking.

Krzyś
X-Ice are very, very good in wet for category they are in.
Continental Viking7 is probably same as X-Ice. I did not expect them to be that good in wet considering ice performance.
Bridgestone I had before were a OK.
Nokian R2 on Tiguan are absolute garbage in wet.
 

SubLGT

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I would say that comparo article was surprisingly unimpressive.

The MOTOR article doesn't need to be impressive, it only needs to be informative about winter tire performance, and it is informative. Much more informative than similar articles in the past from Consumer Reports, or C&D, or Tire Rack.
 
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thanks for posting that article. Lots of info, and surprisingly readable with translation.

It wont convince anyone whose mind is made up but I like the format much better than the terrible CR format that is hard to compare.

I am not a hater/fanboy. I really want to try those michelins.. but it makes me happier than ever I went with viking contact 7's last year on the elantra.

I am underwhelmed by the blizzak dm-v2 on the cherokee.. esp in refreezing slush (slushsnot). They are better than all-season or mountain snowflake AT's but the lateral handling/grip in particular is unpredictable.

I will stick it out with the blizzaks and probably buy the michelins or vikingcontact 7's when the jeep's replacement in a 1 or 2.

PS. I'd like to stress how much I absolutely love the viking contact 7's on the elantra.
They are way better than the oem tires in every way except noise.. and im also talking about dry/wet (at winter temps) conditions as well.

Of course I hate the oem tires I could list why but thats another post.
 
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The MOTOR article doesn't need to be impressive, it only needs to be informative about winter tire performance, and it is informative. Much more informative than similar articles in the past from Consumer Reports, or C&D, or Tire Rack.
They told us nothing about the methodology of how they obtained their subjective ratings, but ok, if you say so. (Unless I completely missed a table or a data sheet or 3)
 
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In Bosnia law specifically says minimum 4mm for winter tires and 1.6,mm for summer tires. I think in Germany is same.
It's not. There were plans to raise threshold from 1.6 to 4mm it for winter conditions, but (luckily) they have not been implemented.
Michelin lobbied heavily against that... there were also some tyre test, where worn down tyres were compared. At 2mm, a Michelin Alpin (I think it was an A5...) fared better than tyres from other well-respected brands with 4 or even 5mm.


If you have a well designed tyre, you need profile depth only in regards to aquaplaning. This is admittedly dangerous, but Aquaplaning usually does not hit you from "nothing". As a driver you have much more control over this phenomenon than a tyre ever can: just lift you right food and adjust speed to the conditions... If you insist o doing 160km/h in a downpour, yeah, you need profile dephth. All of it. Get over on the right line and behind a semi (speed limit 80km/h, in reality they always drive 89...), and aquaplaning becomes next to impossible...
But other than against aquaplaning, profile depth is overrated. I was once caught by an early winter on seven or eight year old and nearly bald Michelin Alpin (the very first generation with the y-sipes) - thy had less than 2mm of tread left. I had just bought the car and had immediately ordered new tyres, but the snow came one day before the appointment to have them fitted. A fist to two fists high of new snow, unplowed, in the hills near the Nürburgring. No drama at all... Sipes (and a well-aging compound) rock.
 
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It's not. There were plans to raise threshold from 1.6 to 4mm it for winter conditions, but (luckily) they have not been implemented.
Michelin lobbied heavily against that... there were also some tyre test, where worn down tyres were compared. At 2mm, a Michelin Alpin (I think it was an A5...) fared better than tyres from other well-respected brands with 4 or even 5mm.


If you have a well designed tyre, you need profile depth only in regards to aquaplaning. This is admittedly dangerous, but Aquaplaning usually does not hit you from "nothing". As a driver you have much more control over this phenomenon than a tyre ever can: just lift you right food and adjust speed to the conditions... If you insist o doing 160km/h in a downpour, yeah, you need profile dephth. All of it. Get over on the right line and behind a semi (speed limit 80km/h, in reality they always drive 89...), and aquaplaning becomes next to impossible...
But other than against aquaplaning, profile depth is overrated. I was once caught by an early winter on seven or eight year old and nearly bald Michelin Alpin (the very first generation with the y-sipes) - thy had less than 2mm of tread left. I had just bought the car and had immediately ordered new tyres, but the snow came one day before the appointment to have them fitted. A fist to two fists high of new snow, unplowed, in the hills near the Nürburgring. No drama at all... Sipes (and a well-aging compound) rock.
I think 1.6mm is too low for winter tire. It is not only water, it is slush, that salt slush, deep snow etc.
 
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Slush is mean, you are right.

I also would not feel very comfortable on such low a tread profile. If you have your senses together, on a wet road you can absolutely feel that the tyre is having a much harder time displacing water than it should. As long as you adjust your speed it's not unsafe, but still, annoying.
What I found remarkable about the experience (>2mm Michelin in fresh snow) is that the Michelins coped far, far better than I would ever have hoped. I mean, there is a reason that the very first thing I did after bying the car was to order new tyres.
I have had other tyres that were much, much worse even with way more tread left.
Since this experience, i really believe that with their philosophy of lasting performance, Michelin are onto something there.
I have had similar experiences with summer tyres. Michelin always seem to be a bit less capable and are never really up to a Conti - but after a few mm of wear, that always totally changes and a 4mm Michelin will blow a 4mm Conti out of the water.
 
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Slush is mean, you are right.

I also would not feel very comfortable on such low a tread profile. If you have your senses together, on a wet road you can absolutely feel that the tyre is having a much harder time displacing water than it should. As long as you adjust your speed it's not unsafe, but still, annoying.
What I found remarkable about the experience (>2mm Michelin in fresh snow) is that the Michelins coped far, far better than I would ever have hoped. I mean, there is a reason that the very first thing I did after bying the car was to order new tyres.
I have had other tyres that were much, much worse even with way more tread left.
Since this experience, i really believe that with their philosophy of lasting performance, Michelin are onto something there.
I have had similar experiences with summer tyres. Michelin always seem to be a bit less capable and are never really up to a Conti - but after a few mm of wear, that always totally changes and a 4mm Michelin will blow a 4mm Conti out of the water.
I have and had their snow tires. They do retain performance for a loooong time, and have full depth sipes. Arguably, one could push limits. I never did as I definitely need deep tread here in the Rockies. My rule with winter tires is 5mm is minimum.
 
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I absolutely do not recommend to drive 2mm winter tyres on purpose when you expect "real" winter conditions. I just wanted to highlight that a good tyre can work surprisingly well in winter conditions even with low tread, and that a hard 4mm rule really is not needed. (Even at less than 2mm, the Michelin Alpin was better than most of the all-seasons of that time when brand new).

Still, I absolutely believe that every motorist should be prepared for the road conditions he is likely to experience. And if I was living in the Rockies (or just in rural Sweden, heck, or even just a little bit closer to the Alps), I'd definitely be doing the same as you.
 
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I absolutely do not recommend to drive 2mm winter tyres on purpose when you expect "real" winter conditions. I just wanted to highlight that a good tyre can work surprisingly well in winter conditions even with low tread, and that a hard 4mm rule really is not needed. (Even at less than 2mm, the Michelin Alpin was better than most of the all-seasons of that time).

Still, I absolutely believe that every motorist should be prepared for the road conditions he is likely to experience. And if I was living in the rockies (or just in rural Sweden, heck, or even just a little bit closer to the Alps), I'd definitely be doing the same as you.
I ran Michelin Pilot Super Sport in rain while having some 3mm depths. Considering how shallow they were, performance was ridiculous. Handling and braking in wet was excellent still.
 

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They told us nothing about the methodology of how they obtained their subjective ratings, but ok, if you say so. (Unless I completely missed a table or a data sheet or 3)

Most of the testing is objective, not subjective. Testing and scoring methodology are here:
MOTOR methods

Data tables will probably show up in a few weeks.
 
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Most of the testing is objective, not subjective. Testing and scoring methodology are here:
MOTOR methods

Data tables will probably show up in a few weeks.
If it was objective, why would they publish the article without any data LOL.
We'll need to wait for The Tire Rack to get some hard data and performance numbers.
 

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If it was objective, why would they publish the article without any data LOL.

Probably because most of their readers prefer to have the measurement data converted to a single-digit or single-letter score. Simple and fast, for people who don't want to spend a lot of time on deciding which tire to buy.
 
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Probably because most of their readers prefer to have the measurement data converted to a single-digit or single-letter score. Simple and fast, for people who don't want to spend a lot of time on deciding which tire to buy.
Could very well be I suppose. I'll probably wait for tirerack, and I have a feeling the Michelin and Conti will be on top of their categories per usual. (More recent usual for the Conti) it's between those two for me, and the Conti is priced right (~$40 per tire). Though I've had multiple sets of xi3's on multiple vehicles and loved them. I can't imagine Michelin not improving or at least maintaining performance in every facet with the new generation.

Honestly, I'm on OEM Michelin MXM4 all-seasons right now waiting for some test results on snows.
I would love to unload these. They are refined, but exceedingly mediocre in every category...even for a grand touring all-season. Especially lacking in hydroplaning resistance and wet grip for my needs.
Next fair weather tire will be an ultra-high performance A/S or summer high performance for sure.

Not to get too far off topic, but anyone have experience with the Goodyear Exhilarate? I generally avoid Goodyear but these sound good and are available in my 235/40/19. Not many options in that size yet...
 
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Could very well be I suppose. I'll probably wait for tirerack, and I have a feeling the Michelin and Conti will be on top of their categories per usual. (More recent usual for the Conti) it's between those two for me, and the Conti is priced right (~$40 per tire). Though I've had multiple sets of xi3's on multiple vehicles and loved them. I can't imagine Michelin not improving or at least maintaining performance in every facet with the new generation.

Honestly, I'm on OEM Michelin MXM4 all-seasons right now waiting for some test results on snows.
I would love to unload these. They are refined, but exceedingly mediocre in every category...even for a grand touring all-season. Especially lacking in hydroplaning resistance and wet grip for my needs.
Next fair weather tire will be an ultra-high performance A/S or summer high performance for sure.

Not to get too far off topic, but anyone have experience with the Goodyear Exhilarate? I generally avoid Goodyear but these sound good and are available in my 235/40/19. Not many options in that size yet...

Yes, have the Exhilarate on my E90. Exactly what I wanted. So much quieter and smoother than the A/S3+, with only a small trade off in handling. And that is saying something because I am a huge Michelin fanboi. Although, wish I had waited and possibly picked up the new Pilot Sport All-Season 4. Was not out yet when I needed tires.

But then again, maybe not.

 
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Yes, have the Exhilarate on my E90. Exactly what I wanted. So much quieter and smoother than the A/S3+, with only a small trade off in handling. And that is saying something because I am a huge Michelin fanboi. Although, wish I had waited and possibly picked up the new Pilot Sport All-Season 4. Was not out yet when I needed tires.

But then again, maybe not.

Thanks for chiming in sir! I've heard similar sentiments and the price is very reasonable as well.
I need a big step up from Grand touring level wet and dry grip but don't want excessive noise and ride penalty.
 
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Originally Posted by krzyss
Are you calling Xi3 "absolute garbage"? Or Pilot Alpin 5 or PA4? Strange. Krzys
Yes, the Xi3. If you need to handle severe winter conditions, it is one of the worst winter tires available. It does have its place. Here in Canada, if you live somewhere like Vancouver or Southern Ontario that is just cold, and sees mostly rain or the odd light snow, they are ok. At several dealerships I have worked at here in Ottawa, they refuse to sell them.
I had xice3's and I would agree they weren't the best in deep snow or slush. We also have newer Xice2's on the Subaru and they don't love the deep stuff either, but on wet pavement with the odd icy patch they are pretty good and that's what most of our driving is in the winter. One thing with the xice tires is they still have the squared off shoulder so they can cut into the deep stuff once you get some slip angle on them. I'd never get a snow tire with a rounded shoulder.
My favorite all round snow tire is the blizzak ws-80, seems to be good at everything except seems to wear fast. I also loved the original goodyear nordics for their deep snow ability but on ice or wet pavement they were pretty bad.
 
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I had xice3's and I would agree they weren't the best in deep snow or slush. We also have newer Xice2's on the Subaru and they don't love the deep stuff either, but on wet pavement with the odd icy patch they are pretty good and that's what most of our driving is in the winter. One thing with the xice tires is they still have the squared off shoulder so they can cut into the deep stuff once you get some slip angle on them. I'd never get a snow tire with a rounded shoulder.
My favorite all round snow tire is the blizzak ws-80, seems to be good at everything except seems to wear fast. I also loved the original goodyear nordics for their deep snow ability but on ice or wet pavement they were pretty bad.
Pretty fair assessment. I would run Blizzaks or Nokian's if packed snow was my usual surface of travel.
My caveat is if I was in Northern Quebec I wouldn't run the Michelins. However in upstate NY, they make the most sense from a noise/comfort/all-around perspective.

I just fitted the new design X-Ice Snow's on my Accord. I'll keep you all updated. On dry roads they are a little quieter than the i3's and ride similarly.
We've had some days in the 70's also, they didn't feel unsafe and I gave them a small workout, both dry and wet. I would say the older Xi3 may have the slight edge in dry road handling honestly, though I'm less than 300 miles in.
 
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I had xice3's and I would agree they weren't the best in deep snow or slush. We also have newer Xice2's on the Subaru and they don't love the deep stuff either, but on wet pavement with the odd icy patch they are pretty good and that's what most of our driving is in the winter. One thing with the xice tires is they still have the squared off shoulder so they can cut into the deep stuff once you get some slip angle on them. I'd never get a snow tire with a rounded shoulder.
My favorite all round snow tire is the blizzak ws-80, seems to be good at everything except seems to wear fast. I also loved the original goodyear nordics for their deep snow ability but on ice or wet pavement they were pretty bad.
I had DM-V2 which is same generation and technology as WS-80. Absolutely abysmal in ice. Horrid! I put Xi2 after that and no issues whatsoever. They were bit less aggressive in deep stuff, but much, much better in everything else.
 
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