You replaced worn LRR tires with new, somewhat LRR tires. Plus the weather just got colder. Hybrids are extremely sensitive to tires and climate. All of this sounds perfectly normal to me.
Michelin Energy Saver A/S Replacements
- Thread starter JHZR2
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JHZR2
Staff member
My hybrid returned consistent MPGs from when new. I have t seen any real variation. So it is all in the tires.
Yes, heat has some effect especially when cold short tripping. This my determinations are basing upon long continuous driving. Further, I don’t use the heat in order to preserve MPGs. I prefer to drive cooler, so until it gets really cold (40s is not really cold), I leave it on low. I know how to force the engine on by manipulation of the heat. 10 years with this car has shown me enough to say that I can see when something isn’t right.
I think above anything it’s just a testament to how good the OE tires were.
I’m just hoping I get happier with these. Right now I’m not happy due to MPGs. They ride smooth and quiet except for grooved cement… and they’re not bad there just not as good as the OE.
my car goes from 32mpg to 15 when short tripping.
You can always return them with the satisfaction guarantee but what would you buy?
We are talking ?$100? in gas a year difference? What are numbers not %
What were last winter numbers? I was getting 32highway in summer I just returned from a 300 mile trip with a sidewind and got 25.5 Same tires.
I'd like to know exactly how immune your hybrid is to physics.
Don’t forget the winter hit on your hybrid MPG. When the temps start to get below 50, my RAV4 Hybrid drops from a consistent 42-44 down to 34-36. Batteries don’t like the cold.
After nearly 100K, the OP knows exactly what to expect with the fuel consumption of his HAH under all conditions.
The OP's experience illustrates the reason that I replaced the OEM Michelins with the same when I replaced the OEM tires, at what I thought was a laudable 72K.
A significant and consistent loss in fuel economy will offset any savings in the cost of the tires over their long lives (at least with the Michelins). Tire life is a cost factor as well, in that cheaper is not necessarily cheaper per mile of life.
The OEM Michelins were also very good in all conditions, as the OP knows.
The OP's experience illustrates the reason that I replaced the OEM Michelins with the same when I replaced the OEM tires, at what I thought was a laudable 72K.
A significant and consistent loss in fuel economy will offset any savings in the cost of the tires over their long lives (at least with the Michelins). Tire life is a cost factor as well, in that cheaper is not necessarily cheaper per mile of life.
The OEM Michelins were also very good in all conditions, as the OP knows.
A family member is on her third Prius. The new one has something else, but the other two with the singular exception of an OE Yokohama nothing even came close to an Energy Saver A/S.
If it were me Id probably buy a noter set before they get impossible to get.
If it were me Id probably buy a noter set before they get impossible to get.
The energy savers are bottom of the barrel in everything except noise and mpg. That is what they are designed for.
They may be good compared to other eco tires.
Very good in all conditions... just no.
I like to stop when I brake + 500$ buys alot of MPG.
Here is an outdated result from tirerack Saving aprox 20gallons/$60-$80 per year but would take 5 years of below average traction to get near breaking even.
JHZR2
Staff member
You know that based upon what? Tire rack? They did perfectly well on my car in all conditions, and I never had any concerns with traction to go or stop. So suffice it to say that whatever perceived benefits you imagine from a review/test, they weren’t sufficiently compelling to matter to me, or affect my driving or safety.
The difference between 36 and 42 is real. I’d guesstimate 80 gallons a year if driving 20k/yr, and 40 gals a year if driving 10k. It’s not a lot but it’s not peanuts. Over 10 years and 100k, assuming these new tires last that long (and their warranty implies they will), it will surpass the savings of procurement.
Because I don’t race to or from taillights, or pretend that I’m a race car driver, I’m not that concerned about getting excess performance beyond my oe tires. So while I agree that we all should want performance improvements where practical, I don’t need excess capability in a daily driver that I really just need quiet, good handling/ride, and LRR.
I am still watching MPGs. Good thing I hand log every single tank of fuel I’ve ever bought in all 12 of my cars, and all the others we’ve owned before. So I will be able to evaluate more thoroughly as time and mileage progresses.
I have noticed in town that what was an easy to achieve 60 mpg is now more like 56… not as bad a drop as on the highway, as one would expect.
My 2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T came standard with the Energy Savers. They were horrible in wet conditions. They weren't all that great in dry conditions. They were pretty quiet on smooth roads. On coarse pavement, they were pretty loud. At 38,000 miles they were down to 4/32 of tread. I had similar results with Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 Plus tires on our Tiguan. These results are exactly why I won't buy Eco focused tires. I'm not going to sacrifice safety and longevity for fuel economy.
JHZR2
Staff member
Yet I have had none of the same experiences. So I don’t know what to tell you. Sorry? These weren’t horrible. I frankly was expecting them to either be horrible, or to crack themselves apart. Photos tell the actual story.
Maybe yours had a different oe compound or factory/coo?
I don’t need to be alarmist about safety. Sure “so much is riding on your tires”. Got it. Don’t disagree. But the OE tires were very satisfactory for me. Hopefully the new ones will be too. They are too new for tests, I believe.
This thread is about the performance and economy that my OE tires gave me, and the marked difference that replacements did. YMMV. I don’t care to share in anxiety over speculation on tires that I ran successfully and safely from new, for a decade and 90k.
Just so everyone understands:
OE tires - the ones that come on a new vehicle from the factory - are unique to themselves - even if the name is the same. That's because the car manufacturer writes the specs and the tire manufacturer designs to those specs.
And the specs are not only different for every car manufacturer, even within a car manufacturer there is hardly any consistency.
The company I used to work for produced 5 different versions of the same tire (Same size, same name) for the various car manufacturers they supplied to. Each one was different.
So it shouldn't a surprise to anyone that OE tires perform differently than replacement market tires (tires designed for sale on the open market) - as well as differently depending on what vehicle they came OE on.
OE tires - the ones that come on a new vehicle from the factory - are unique to themselves - even if the name is the same. That's because the car manufacturer writes the specs and the tire manufacturer designs to those specs.
And the specs are not only different for every car manufacturer, even within a car manufacturer there is hardly any consistency.
The company I used to work for produced 5 different versions of the same tire (Same size, same name) for the various car manufacturers they supplied to. Each one was different.
So it shouldn't a surprise to anyone that OE tires perform differently than replacement market tires (tires designed for sale on the open market) - as well as differently depending on what vehicle they came OE on.
JHZR2
Staff member
Thanks. Yes, I think my surprise is as follows:
1) how good the oe tires were, given expectations for the manufacturer (cracking) and performance (oe/lrr design)
2) how markedly worse the new “LRR” and “EV check” tires have been. I would expect some. Not what I’ve gotten.
That’s why my original comments were not about how potentially unsafe my oe tires might be based upon a different application or test…. It really was particularly, would they get at least somewhat better after “breaking in” over some distance or duration in use.
I've driven my HAH on these Michelins through some pretty awful conditions.
Let's just say that my experience with these tires, both the OEMs and their replacements, doesn't jibe with Tire Rack's take on them.
As always, YMMV.
aftermarket or OE? Because if you are buying you arent getting more OE tires.
Maybe the honda version are unicorns
but the aftermarket version are below average for everything a tire should be except mpg and noise.
I think @edyvw goes abit too far in the opposite direction saying everyone should have a top tier UHP tire..
but all the eco focus tires aren't close in bad weather traction to top rated standard or grand touring tires.
News to me since both the OEM and the replacement Michelins do just great under all conditions, and I live in Ohio too, so we do see actual winter, although not as much as you would in the NE.
I too have experience with the Michelin Energy Saver A/S, roughly 180K miles across two vehicles. They are solid, well rounded, and long lasting tires. Not quite as good as the Continentals in wet or winter weather conditions but solid tires nonetheless. As for fuel economy, I cannot detect a difference. I’m having no trouble getting in the 40 MPG range with my RAV4 Hybrid with a new set of Truecontact Tour 54s. OP is reporting a 15% drop switch switching from the Michelins to the Continentals; I suspect something else is going on here.
JHZR2
Staff member
Nothing else could be going on. It was like the flick of a light switch. Literally a 25ish mile highway ride before and after (to start) with drastic differences. Lots more miles on them now, maybe it has closed in a little. But I’m not breaking 40 for all highway tanks. All highway tanks were 42+ before, mostly town tanks were high 40s. In town trips were 60s before… I’ve only seen 59 since.
Dumb question. What was the tire pressure that you were running before the tire change and what are they now? It’s just odd, my hybrid’s fuel economy is very sensitive to temperature, tire pressure changes, I haven’t seen a drop with these new tires.
Physics dictate a loss of mileage in winter.. Do you have any mileage records from previous winters?
if your car loses 0 mileage in the winter
you would be the first ever. I find it hard to believe you have 0 mpg loss.
We can just agree to disagree and move on though
JHZR2
Staff member
As I said elsewhere. I have hand logs from every single tank of fuel I’ve ever bought in every single vehicle I’ve ever owned.
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