Medevac Helicopters....

[Scooby]

Well, the flight for my mother in law was around $12-14k. IMO, if it is needed...then who cares what it costs.

I've got several friends who fly, and had offers from two different services to fly for them 2 years ago. The pay for a flight medic was going to be starting at about $50-60k. Flight nurses are more, and of course the pilots are $100k or more.

Other costs are high also. For each hour of flight time there are 2-3 hours of maintenance. You have to figure leasing costs, fuel, INSURANCE on machine and crews, liability insurance, housing costs, dispatch/service costs, accounting, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not doubting that costs are inflated, but this is not a service where it is cheap and easy to get into.

It's similar to ambulance costs. My FD charges $450 for an ALS transport. A private ambulance service charges $1000-2000+ for the same trips.

It's medical costs in general. Numerous lawsuits, indigent care, etc have driven costs through the roof.

The services transport regardless of insurance coverage. I'd say that 30-40% OR MORE of their transports have NO coverage. They HAVE to get their money where they can (people with insurance). If not, they'll be out of service, and more people that suffer severe trauma or severe medical conditions WILL DIE!!

It's an issue of what's more important!!

If you have insurance, MOST of the time the amount NOT covered by insurance is written off.

 

[rotorray]

The cost is "fair" if that is what you think your life, or the life of your wife and kids, is worth. It's that simple. If you don't think your life is worth $91K (and I think if you did a little research you'd find that med-evac heli rides are not that expensive) then vigorously refuse the service, take land transportation and let happen what happens. Personally, I think my life, and the life of my wife and kids, is worth $91K, if not more. I don't really think I can put a price on it.

During my 25+ years of flying helis I had 4 major engine failures over heavily populated cities. These each resulted in my having to make an emergency no engine landing on a city street. The average time from engine failure to landing was 12 SECONDS (I have my radio transmissions on tape). I also had hundreds of "minor" mechanical failures requiring my immediate return to the airport. My emergency landings never "bent" the aircraft (value $1-mil+) or injured anyone (including me, my crew, or anyone on the ground), and for that I feel fortunate. I have lost several friends who weren't so fortunate piloting emergency operations for civilians such as yourself. I only wish I could buy their lives back for $91K. I guess you have to experience it to understand it. Live long enough, or drive enough miles, and you will eventually need to use emergency medical transportation, but you don't have to be old. When my 12 year old son fell off his bike the local fire dept sent him code 3 (red light & siren) to the hospital because of the severity of his injuries. Hopefully it will be available to you and you will be happy to see the bill, even if you can't afford to pay for it. If you can't pay for it maybe the institution will be charitable enough to adjust the cost for you, and pass it on to another who CAN afford to pay for it. Like everything else, SOMEONE will pay in the end.

 

[Auto-Union]

Anyone in the market for a nice Bell 407?

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

My vote is for the heli's. My bro-in-law is alive after a horrific motorcycle accident where he was basically dead. Excellent care and quick response saved his life. One year ago he was life-flighted to Illinois Masonic from NW Indiana.

He shouldn't have lived by all accounts. Because of quick response (heli's), good care, and lots and LOTS of prayers, he's at 90% now. Amazing. A miracle walking, no doubt.

Our family is VERY grateful for this helicopter/lifeflight service.

On a bit of a different note, I'm amazed to watch those heli pilots transfer hospital roof landing pads near where I work when the winds are howling...and the copter doesn't flinch at all in those high winds! True professional pilots, no doubt!

 

[rpn453]

Quote:

---

"It's a racket"

Obviously the person who wrote this statement doesn't know what he's talking about. All the helicopter does is save TIME, nothing more. When you're dying you don't have time to waste. I hope that the person who wrote that statement never needs emergency care. Just remember, however, that when you're in a car you only control 1/2 of your life. The idiot who's going to hit you controls the other. Thank #@$%! there are folks who risk their lives in helicopters to save others in need. Many folks are still around today because of them. I only hope that this person NEVER needs rapid transport to a hospital because I think he will eat his words BIG TIME!!

---

What point are you arguing? He's just saying that there may be a big profit margin, as with many other big-dollar service contracts. Show us the financial statements that show otherwise, and then he can eat his words!

 

[rotorray]

Actually, the profit margin is quite small, and usually just covers expenses. with required flight crew training, helicopter procurement and maintenance xpenses/requirements, EMT training, FAA mandated recurrency training, the margins are quite small. try to land a helicopter on a foggy day on a 2 lane road at the scene of a major accident where ground troops are constantly asking for an estimated time of arrival (ETA) for the emergency responder. Like I said, med-evac flights are the most hazardous of ALL flights, helicopter or otherwise. Usually EVERYONE is killed in an accident, even the patient they are trying to save. You want "financial statements" in life or death situations?? By that statement alone it is obvious you have never held the life of another person in your hands in an emergency. I hope you and your family never has the need for such a service! As they say, "Ignorance is bliss." I hope and pray that you NEVER find yourself or your family in such a situation. You will surely be eating these rediculous statements. Medi-vac crews are the most heroic and courageous flight crews out there. They regulary give their lives trying to save others in their time of need. And you ask for "financial statements"???? Gosh help you.

 

[MarkC]

They seem to be pretty well-paid, so I wouldn't say they're "giving" anything away.

 

[rotorray]

Actually, I think that you would be suprised at what a medi-vac helicopter pilot makes. You think they make $100K per year? You godda be kidding! Why don't you ask them what they make. They'll tell you. If they make $60K they're lucky, depending on where the aircraft is located. would you risk you life for $60k? Like I said, when you're dying I don't think what's on the financial statement matters, not to me, anyway. It's your choice, live or die. Personally, I'll take life. You want financial statements? Let your mortician worry about it!

 

[Cutehumor]

Rotorray,

I agree. I would never put $$$ figures when your life is line. You can't take money with you with your dead.

 

[rjundi]

Until insurance is mandated for everyone likely via legislation the out of balance health costs will continue.

Basically the insured and pay out of pockets are covering costs for those who can not or will not pay medical costs.

 

[MarkC]

Quote:

---

Actually, I think that you would be suprised at what a medi-vac helicopter pilot makes. You think they make $100K per year? You godda be kidding! Why don't you ask them what they make. They'll tell you. If they make $60K they're lucky, depending on where the aircraft is located. would you risk you life for $60k? Like I said, when you're dying I don't think what's on the financial statement matters, not to me, anyway. It's your choice, live or die. Personally, I'll take life. You want financial statements? Let your mortician worry about it!

---

There are plenty of people, both in the military and out, that risk their lives more for less money.
If you make a choice to do such jobs, don't complain about it.

 

[oilyriser]

If more people lived in dense cities, the roads could be made wide enough for gound transport to move freely.

 

[Gary Allan]

Scooby - sure, there are some situations that require a medivac. The objections, or observations, is how it's now used (and has been for a decent amount of time) for situations where ground transport would not impact the patient/victim. It's becoming routine for situations where it's not needed and certainly not cost effective. This leads me to believe that it's being "forced fed" money ...at our expense. Someone is footing the bill for these setups. It just doesn't appear out of "good will" ..so let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the pilots, the medical staff who man them (in the case of the burn unit are doctors and nurses) take pay cuts and volunteer their time, or the helicopter repair/landing/maintenance facilities donate the upkeep of the units. Each of those elements are paid at a premium without regard to "need" ..actually, they capitalize on it. Our local ambulance company has over 9 obsolete units sitting on ambilicals that never leave the bay (which they made bigger to fit more idle units). They always buy the new wizbang $650-700k (whatever the most advanced unit is at the time) ambulance on a routine basis. Why? Because they have no incentive to save money and in fact get other revenues just due to the idle units that they have. They went into the para-transit service. Do you think it was out of "good will" (which is the company name, btw)? No. They did it because there were funds available for them to collect. It's a funny thing about non-profit or not for profit enterprises ..there's profit being made all around them. The problem that we have now is the impression of non-profit where many of our medical sectors are not non-profit ..yet the support services may be. Even with non-profit status, the institution becomes a horn o' plenty in watershed gain.

I've known nurses that have worked medivac. The protocols may have changed due to the way the wind blows in funding it as to when the chopper gets called, but they never transported an unstable patient. Perhaps the definition of "unstable" is up for debate.

Law suits is right. When someone sues saying "Why did they get medivac service and I didn't? ..well, more medivacs occur.

Where I live there's an almost consistent 25-30 mile span between urban centers of substantial size. All have 2-3 hospitals. Yet they setup regional trauma centers where certain injuries get taken to via medivac. The burn centers almost always use medivac ..yet most burn victims don't die from burn injuries ..they die weeks later due to infection. 3 hours or 30 hours typically doesn't alter their life expectancy (check the stats on age/% of full thickness burns).


Expect to hear more of this type of critique of advanced (and very expensive) services in a situation where the economic base that has to support them is in retreat/recession. Such is the plight of of a society having the technological ability to provide such things ...without the cash to pay for it painlessly. We could also have twice the police that we now have ...twice as many hospitals ...a teacher for every 6 students ....wire every house for fiber-optic ..wifi every urban center ...all great things that are within our ability to do so as a civilization.

 

[rotorray]

MarkC wrote: "There are plenty of people, both in the military and out, that risk their lives more for less money. If you make a choice to do such jobs, don't complain about it."

I've never "complained" about my job. Just where did you read that I was complaining about my job?? I enjoyed EVERY SECOND of it. My partners and I helped a lot of people who, at the time, were unable to help themselves. Obviously, you are ALWAYS able to help yourself and your family, and you will NEVER need emergency medical care or law enforcement. Believe me when I say that the reality is that someday, somewhere, you and/or members of your family will need such assistance. It is a fact of life. I only hope that you remember what you said in your statements on this site. Don't forget to thank the folks that are risking their lives to help you at the time. Their sacrifices will be keeping you above ground level.

 

[MarkC]

I've never personally needed law enforcement, nor medical assistance yet. I doubt I'll ever personally need police help, I'm sure one day medical help may be needed. I hope it doesn't cost $90K or something if I need it.
Maybe you aren't complaining, but you're trying to justify more money than necessary by saying stuff like people are risking their lives, choppers are expensive, etc.
So I guess that unlike anything else that has to do with the medical field, medevac services are not overpriced?

 

[rotorray]

"I doubt I'll ever personally need police help.."

All I can say to that is DREAM ON! If you don't like having to deal with the cost of medical services the only solution I can see is DON'T USE IT! Simple. Whenever I, or members of my family, needed it I never thought of the cost. Getting healthy was my primary concern. Like I asked earlier, what do you think your life, or the life of a family member, is worth? If your life is saved after you spend 4 days in intensive care, and given 4 pints of blood, and treated by 4 physicians from various specialties, and the bill is $100K, is that too much? You have to decide what your life is worth. I guess you have several lives in the bank to draw upon. I only have one and if it costs $100K to save it so be it. I guess I could buy something else with the money but if I'm not around to enjoy it, what's it good for?

I know that your feelings on this subject will change some day. It's inevitable. Sometimes unexpected things happen which we have no control over. It might be a school shooting or, as happened today, two firefighters were stabbed by some nut case INSIDE their fire house in Berkeley, CA. Believe me when I say that at that time the LAST thing you will be thinking of is the money.

I'll even challenge you right now. This will only take a few minutes for you to get the point. Go to the nearest hospital emergency room. You have several in the SeaTac area. Ask ANYONE being treated for a life-threatening injury or ailement if they are thinking about how much it is going to cost them to save their life. Ask the attending Dr if he is considering the cost to his/her patient while he is trying to save his/her life. I think you will find that cost, at that time, just doesn't enter into the equation.

 

[rotorray]

MarkC: What do you think they guys in this video should be paid? Interesting videos on this site.

http://www.flixxy.com/helicopter-cable-inspector.htm

 

[MarkC]

Why do you need me to tell you how much you should be paid?
I'm just saying that I believe the price of being transported by helicopter to hospital is inflated, as are many other costs associated with medical treatment. The argument that you'll need it sometime and many need it now, doesn't mean that the cost isn't excessive.
According to that argument, you have to have food, so why not be willing to pay outrageous prices for it?
And I don't need to dream on about probably no needing any assistance from police officers. I haven't yet, and I doubt that I will, and if I do, I doubt it will be very helpful after the fact.
BTW...
"Captain Richard Arroyo of the NJSP as quoted in the Courier News Bedminster at center of flap over helicopters January 22, 2006, stated that it costs approximately $1,200 an hour to operate the MedEvac helicopters"

 

[oilyriser]

remote sensing connection to doctors could help with triage

 

[rotorray]

"Captain Richard Arroyo of the NJSP as quoted in the Courier News Bedminster at center of flap over helicopters January 22, 2006, stated that it costs approximately $1,200 an hour to operate the MedEvac helicopters"

Are you saying that's too much? If it's too much, in your opinion, what SHOULD it be costing? Hourly costs must include the cost of the aircraft, fuel, oil/lubrication fluids for engine and TWO tranimissions, depreciation, insurance, maintenance, salaries/benefits for the crew. Additional expenses, not included in the above, are required flight training for crewmembers and medical recurrency training for EMT personnel. We haven't even talked about stocking the aircraft with required medical equipment similar to what's in your local ER.

I would also recommend that you visit your local airport where a medevac helicopter is based. Ask the crew for a short tour of the aircraft. They'll be happy to show you. Ask them to explain to you what is required by the FAA and the various equipment manufacturers to equip the aircraft of medevac operations. Ask them what their annual insurance expense is. In knowledge there is wisdom.

"According to that argument, you have to have food, so why not be willing to pay outrageous prices for it? " Are you sure you are not in some areas?