The ADBV really doesn't cause any level of dP that's going to matter when a PD oil pump is forcing oil through the system. That theory must have come from a Mazda chat board somewhere, lol. If that was really a concern, then no oil filter would have an ADBV. And all the aftermarket filters with ADBVs specified for that engine would "theoretically" damage the engine if they impeded oil flow due to using an ADBV.
Mazda Filter
- Thread starter Propflux01
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ok lots of you telling me my sources are wrong.. ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.. but no answer to why .. so? then why did Mazda leave the ADBV out?
Who know except the engineers, but it's logically not because the ADBV was so flow restrictive that it couldn't be used.
and you never know what the engineers DID find that caused them to leave it out. And wouldn't it be something that they did find flow issues that they didn't like. Would that' be something to learn that.. always pays to keep an open mind
If "flow issues" was the real reason, then why do aftermarket filters for that engine have an ADBV? If it was so critical that the filter for that engine to not have an ADBV due to it causing "flow issues", then aftermarket oil filters would also not have the ADBV.
Of all the components in an oil filter, the ADBV is basically invisible to the oil pump and the flow restriction it causes is minuscule, especially if it's a silicone ADBV. Maybe they are afraid the ADBV is going to cause issues in super cold start-ups, but look at how many millions of engines have oil filters with ADBVs that start-up every day in super cold weather over the world using oil filters with nitrile ADBVs which could be stiffer in very cold start-up weather.
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It's an interesting argument that you're presenting.. and what is very interesting is none of those aftermarket companies are the designers/engineers for that engine. To rely on the "aftermarket" expertise is a fools errand. That's like saying I should rely on mann/hummel's advice for quality oil filters because they know better.. that just would be hilariously funny. Not with the cheap junk they keep producing.. Again to rely on the aftermarket parts companies for design advice is truly not the advice anyone should go by.. But if you want to believe them, have at it. Not for me though, I'll rely on the expertise of the people who actually engineered/designed the engine, they might know more of what they produced.
Who is the manufacturer of this filter? It’s not the usual Tokyo Roki which are very nicely built imo.
The engineers at those aftermarket filter companies just don't blindly specify oil filters. There are some aftermarket filters that are made differently for specific engines, like ones that spec a higher bypass valve setting on the OEM filters, or ones with a center tube anti-siphon tube, etc. The aftermarket filter makes do look at how that OEM filters are designed. I'd bet the aftermarket filter designers know the OEM filter doesn't have an ADBV, yet the aftermarket filters have the ADBV. The big name aftermarket filter makers are liable for their products if they cause engine damage. They try to design products so they don't risk all kinds of lawsuits because they improperly specified an oil filter for an engine.
There's a difference between a proper design and a proper manufacturing of the design. The latter (bad manufacturing) is what you're talking about. The engineering design can be the most perfect design in the world, but if it can't be properly manufactured to meet that design, then it can become low quality junk.
See previous response. The aftermarket companies have design engineers, and if they know what they are doing they should be designing filters that aren't going to damage any engine. Engineers who design OEM parts can make mistakes too, because they are also humans, lol. Just because it's an OEM part doesn't mean it will always be a perfect design ... history has proven that ever since cars have been on the roads.
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So riddle me this Batman. Is the OEM Mazda oil filter without an ADBV only specified for one very specific engine in the Mazda engine line-up? If so, is there at least one aftermarket oil filter without an ADBV specified for that same engine?
I'm just a parts guy, but isn't any ADBV talk kind of a moot point when most of these applications have the filters vertical with the threads facing up?
Not necessarily, because even if the filter is mounted vertically with the base facing up there are oil galleries above the filter which could leak down and leave air in the system if there's no ADBV. The filter could also leak down to some degree depending exactly where it's located relative to the oil level in the sump. GM engines with the filter mounted low and vertical on the engine with base up specify an ADBV.
Contracted to a Thailand based filter mfg. Could be Denso, Siam Filter / Full, or another.
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I don't know about the flow part. It seems probable Mazda determined the absence of an ADBV still yielded acceptable results, and they could buy the filters for a dollar less (or however much) without the valve.
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Flow is dictated almost exclusively by the media. If they were concerned about flow, they'd use a bigger filter, with more media. As @ZeeOSix noted, compared to the media, the ADBV is effectively invisible to the oil flow.
This is like being concerned about the impact on flow of the city using seamed or seamless water piping on a 12" water main to your house, ignoring that it necks down to 3/4" at the point of delivery.
It is odd to see no adbv on a filter. But Mazda one very few that doesn't have one on the OE/OEM. No doubt saves money in making the filter. As for having/using one or not, always in the camp that even if not used in OE/M, having one in an aftermarket equivalent filter hurts nothing. Not having one where OEM spec'd, a no go.
Another filter application not using/having an adbv is the Fram 9837 for some older GM models. It was/is done to match the factory 'OE' oil filters. Interestingly though, the equivalent off the shelf ACDelco OEM filter, the PF61 does use an adbv. That would seem to be evidence in agreement with the initial adbv use thought. The Purolator equivalent 25288 always use an adbv too.
Another filter application not using/having an adbv is the Fram 9837 for some older GM models. It was/is done to match the factory 'OE' oil filters. Interestingly though, the equivalent off the shelf ACDelco OEM filter, the PF61 does use an adbv. That would seem to be evidence in agreement with the initial adbv use thought. The Purolator equivalent 25288 always use an adbv too.
Mazda's SkyActive-G engines' oiling systems are not positive-displacement (check the service manuals). The pump itself is--it's a standard gearotor--but the ECU has pressure-based control of the bypass system, which is built into the pump and thus upstream of the filter. I don't recall whether they've been that way since the beginning of the SkyActive (direct injection) series, or if it was a running change somewhere along the way. I've never looked at the control code to see how much authority the ECU has or when or how it applies it.
A gerotor oil pump is a positive displacement pump. It sounds like it's also computer controlled, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a PD oil pump. I highly doubt the oil pump and it's control system can't provide the adequate oil flow to the engine's oiling system if there is an ADBV in the oil filter. That would be a pretty ridiculous oiling system if that was the case.
Non-sequitur.
An oil pump whose output is ECU-modulated before it leaves the pump is not positive-displacement, it's pressure-based.
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My 5.3’s drop a full quart from a filter change - that little can might hold 1/3 of that. Hydrostatic pressure comes from the high side of the U-tube.
Nope ... the pump is still positive displacement - that's a mechanical attribute. A pump is mechanically either PD or it's not, regardless of how it's output pressure is controlled (mechanical and/or electronically).
A non-computer controlled PD pump is also "pressure based" by simply regulating what its pressure relief valve is set to. If the pump is computer controlled, then the PD is still forcing oil volume through the system to achieve the ECU commanded control pressure at the location of the pressure feedback sensor input to the ECU. If there is more restriction between the pump and the feedback pressure sensor (like due to some "restrictive" ADBV in an oil filter, lol), then the computer raises the pump relief and the pump then forces more volume through the system to achieve the ECU commanded pressure target at the oil pressure sensor If it's really that sophisticated where it's an actual closed-loop feedback control system, that's how it would work. The PD pump simply variably controlled by the ECU instead of by a mechanical spring.
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