For the longest time, I've felt that from NEUTRAL, it is easier to shift to 1st gear by first going into 2nd gear then shifting down to 1. There isn't any trouble getting into 1st gear from Neutral, but I just perceive it to be easier. Am I a snowflake?
Any mechanical engineers know anything about this? Tried searching it but cannot find the right key words.
Manual transmissions and shifting to 1st gear fr N
- Thread starter whizbyu
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Originally Posted By: whizbyu
There isn't any trouble getting into 1st gear from Neutral, but I just perceive it to be easier.
In neutral with the clutch engaged you have gears moving on the input shaft of the transmission. Shifting into second will halt movement and allow the easier push into first gear.
First and second are large heavy gears with a lot of rotational inertia. Their syncros have the hardest jobs. Second gear syncro always goes "weak" first on my high mileage cars or gets reluctant on cold mornings when the tranny lube is thick.
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's the synchronizers that help you out. You'd also enjoy luck if you blipped the throttle with the clutch out in neutral then went for 1st.
Hmmm. Have to think about this. Sometimes in my car I have to move the car forward or backward a bit to get it into first if I am sitting still. Otherwise I dont believe ive ever had an issue unless its cold. On my truck sometimes I find it easier to stick it into 2nd and then into first if it wont do first right away.
On a fully synchro trans, Gears are always meshed and not "moved' or "shifted" in position per se, you are just locking the selected gear to the mainshaft with a dog collar. Sometimes they are nose to nose, if the dogs are running slow you will slip the collar over without going nose to nose that would block the lock. When I reverse I go clutch out in N, clutch IN, then select after maybe 1.5 sec.
Some truth to that; some older cars didn't have a synchronized first gear, like my dad's 1947 Lincoln. It will grind a little if you don't shift into second to stop the gears if you've been sitting in neutral with the clutch out. My MG occasionally gets balky going into first, which seems to correct itself if I go into third first, but that feels more like the linkage is just quirky than having bad synchros.
could try pressing the clutch 2-3 seconds earlier to see if that gives more time for the gears to spin down before asking the syncros to do that.
Sometimes grabbing another gear first can slightly rotate the gear assy as the dogs insert, which could also aid the 1st gear insertion.
-m
Originally Posted By: Dave Sherman
My MG occasionally gets balky going into first,
I’ve never had a problem shifting into 1st gear in any car I’ve owned, which have been mostly various Japanese makes.
I have had to bump cars slightly forward in 1st to be able shift into reverse, but that gear typically doesn’t have synchromesh.
BSW
Originally Posted By: whizbyu
For the longest time, I've felt that from NEUTRAL, it is easier to shift to 1st gear by first going into 2nd gear then shifting down to 1. There isn't any trouble getting into 1st gear from Neutral, but I just perceive it to be easier. Am I a snowflake?
Any mechanical engineers know anything about this? Tried searching it but cannot find the right key words.
Originally Posted By: ammolab
In neutral with the clutch engaged you have gears moving on the input shaft of the transmission. Shifting into second will halt movement and allow the easier push into first gear.
Kestas
Staff member
From the time you press the clutch in to the time the input shaft stops spinning is 3 to 5 seconds. This is an industry standard. It is tested by the presence of gear clash when shifting into (unsynchronized) reverse. Any sooner or longer indicates a transmission that is too tight or too loose.
Your shifting into second stops the transmission from spinning. You probably could have achieved the same thing by waiting a bit longer shifting from neutral to first.
I always put an even amount of pressure with the shifter and wait just a fraction of a second before the shifter is accepted into first. This allows the parts to spool down for shifting. People that try to slam it into first will quickly ruin the synchronizers for first gear.
When I owned cars that had 3 speed transmissions I always pushed the shifter toward 2nd gear to stop things from turning inside of the transmission. It kept the transmission from grinding 1st gear. The only car that I own now has an old Borg Warner T10 4 speed and it has synchro on first gear so I don't need to use second gear like on the old three on the tree.
Syncro on reverse is pretty common now - it uses the same fork and syncro hub as 5th, so not a big change.
Originally Posted By: ammolab
In neutral with the clutch engaged you have gears moving on the input shaft of the transmission. Shifting into second will halt movement and allow the easier push into first gear.
First and second are large heavy gears with a lot of rotational inertia. Their syncros have the hardest jobs. Second gear syncro always goes "weak" first on my high mileage cars or gets reluctant on cold mornings when the tranny lube is thick.
Many manual transmissions don't have a syncro for first gear. My Mazda is fully syncro'ed including reverse, so pick your gear and go. Not sure about the PT Cruiser's five speed, it's not exactly a sweet shifting transmission at the best of times, plus it's got terrible clutch engagement that apparently can't be fixed. So shifting with it is usually done more carefully than you would with a "good" transmission.
But regardless, race car or tractor, shifting does require a little finesse beyond just picking a gear and letting out the clutch; rev-matching, double-clutching, and clutchless shifting are all techniques you should learn.
Originally Posted By: Silk
Syncro on reverse is pretty common now - it uses the same fork and syncro hub as 5th, so not a big change.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Many manual transmissions don't have a syncro for first gear. My Mazda is fully syncro'ed including reverse, so pick your gear and go. Not sure about the PT Cruiser's five speed, it's not exactly a sweet shifting transmission at the best of times, plus it's got terrible clutch engagement that apparently can't be fixed. So shifting with it is usually done more carefully than you would with a "good" transmission.
But regardless, race car or tractor, shifting does require a little finesse beyond just picking a gear and letting out the clutch; rev-matching, double-clutching, and clutchless shifting are all techniques you should learn.
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