Manual Transmission Fluids and their viscosities

[busfreak]

@MolaKule:

in another post you specified:

Quote:
75W85 Series-Type; 9.8 to 11.5 cSt ( Redline's MTL, RP's Synchromax LT, Nissan's MTL, Honda MTL, Castrol Syntorq LT)


Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 is round about 2 cSt away from the lower bound of this range.
Is 9.8 a white paper value ?
2 cSt is 20% deviation. I can't evaluate if this is critical.
But in my small knowledge viscosity is a issue of gearbox design (my car is a van). So I wonder if the specified and recommended range may be left without any impact to the gearbox.

But if the tribologist says it is not really a problem, I will try

Above you said further
Quote:
... until hot weather reappers and see how shifting is at that time.

What are you possibly expecting in hot weather concerning shifts, when oil is becoming too thin ?

Quote:
Assuming your Beemer specs a 7.5 cSt fluid, I think the one of the fluids from the following list would be much better in terms of wear control:

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-1, 2



RL D4 ATF has a API GL4 protection

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
RL D4 ATF has a API GL4 protection


I have to disagree with that claim which is why I did not include RL's D4 in the list.

I have yet to see an ATF AW protection package with the same levels of AW additive as do the application specific MTLs.

Quote:
What are you possibly expecting in hot weather concerning shifts, when oil is becoming too thin ?


I am not expecting anything. I am suggesting to run the fluid posted and see if it performs in hot weather as well as it does in cold weather.

 

[busfreak]

may be it is a good compromise to go away from multi-range oil and change the oil when tires are changed in spring and autumn like dailydriver is doing.

 

[busfreak]

is Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 the best oil in that visco range 8 - 9.5 you can recommend and I can purchase in Europe, molakule ?

 

[MolaKule]

I would say so unless you can find some Fuchs that has an equivalent viscosity.

 

[busfreak]

- is the lower bound value 9.8 cSt of the 75W-85 series a white paper value ?
- is the viscosity curve (temp - cSt) linear ?
- for cold weather replacement the value at 0°C would be much more interesting than at 100°C.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have to disagree with that claim which is why I did not include RL's D4 in the list.

I have yet to see an ATF AW protection package with the same levels of AW additive as do the application specific MTLs.


I may try to call Dave at Red Line next week to get him to explain (around the whole requisite 'proprietary info' limitations of course) what it is about their D4 ATF which allows them to claim GL-4 protection levels.

They DO NOT claim that it actually meets GL-4 specs as an official designation BTW.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have to disagree with that claim which is why I did not include RL's D4 in the list.

I have yet to see an ATF AW protection package with the same levels of AW additive as do the application specific MTLs.


I may try to call Dave at Red Line next week to get him to explain (around the whole requisite 'proprietary info' limitations of course) what it is about their D4 ATF which allows them to claim GL-4 protection levels.

They DO NOT claim that it actually meets GL-4 specs as an official designation BTW.

I would like to hear his explanation as well. What FZG or other tests have they done to qualify it as a GL-4?

 

[galaxy333]

Originally Posted By: busfreak
is Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 the best oil in that visco range 8 - 9.5 you can recommend and I can purchase in Europe, molakule ?


I have a similar question is Castrol Syntrans FE 75W a equivalent to Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID FE SAE 75W?

My Ford vehicle asks for Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 and the Castrol is the only oil I can find with that spec apart from the Ford oil from the dealers and I have no idea who makes that.

I have a little knowledge of John Rowland of Fuchs and that would edge me to the Fuchs oil if it had the Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 spec on it.

Do you have any information as to what the Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 spec calls for?

The Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID FE SAE 75W is Suitable as fill for life fluid depending on manufacturer and I cannot see that the Castrol says that of the Castrol Syntrans FE 75W.

My gearbox has just been taken out to replace the clutch and dual mass flywheel and since then the gear change is much stiffer and sometimes a small grinding occurs when cold so I would rather change it myself as it is very easy to get at the plugs and I would know what is in it for my peace of mind.

The reason I don't put the dealer Ford oil in is because I don't know who makes it and it doesn't say fill for life either, I would probably use the Castrol as it has the Ford spec on it but again doesn't say fill for life, the Fuchs looks close (just on the 100c spec) but doesn't have the Ford spec but is a fill for life oil.

Is the Castrol a top tier synthetic that would be the best lubricant for my application (on manufacturers spec)?

 

[jaj]

Originally Posted By: galaxy333
I have a similar question is Castrol Syntrans FE 75W a equivalent to Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID FE SAE 75W?

My Ford vehicle asks for Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 and the Castrol is the only oil I can find with that spec apart from the Ford oil from the dealers and I have no idea who makes that.

I have a little knowledge of John Rowland of Fuchs and that would edge me to the Fuchs oil if it had the Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 spec on it.

Do you have any information as to what the Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 spec calls for?...


I purchased a copy of the spec for my own use. There's nothing in the spec itself that answers your question directly, but the fluid must pass a proprietary friction performance test. I'd avoid using a fluid that hasn't been certified by Ford to meet M2C200-D2.

As for the quality of the Castrol and dealer fluids, all I can say is that if they pass the M2C200-D2 tests, they have to be quality full synthetic fluids - I can't imagine a conventional fluid meeting the viscosity requirements.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
The reason I don't put the dealer Ford oil in is because I don't know who makes it and it doesn't say fill for life either, I would probably use the Castrol as it has the Ford spec on it but again doesn't say fill for life, the Fuchs looks close (just on the 100c spec) but doesn't have the Ford spec but is a fill for life oil.


There have been many discussions on here about the myth of "fill-for-life."

In my view, anyone who thinks any current Manual Transmission Fluid is fill-for-life is kidding themselves when is comes to the reality of the chemistry of MTLs.

 

[galaxy333]

Originally Posted By: jaj
Originally Posted By: galaxy333
I have a similar question is Castrol Syntrans FE 75W a equivalent to Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID FE SAE 75W?

My Ford vehicle asks for Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 and the Castrol is the only oil I can find with that spec apart from the Ford oil from the dealers and I have no idea who makes that.

I have a little knowledge of John Rowland of Fuchs and that would edge me to the Fuchs oil if it had the Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 spec on it.

Do you have any information as to what the Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 spec calls for?...


I purchased a copy of the spec for my own use. There's nothing in the spec itself that answers your question directly, but the fluid must pass a proprietary friction performance test. I'd avoid using a fluid that hasn't been certified by Ford to meet M2C200-D2.

As for the quality of the Castrol and dealer fluids, all I can say is that if they pass the M2C200-D2 tests, they have to be quality full synthetic fluids - I can't imagine a conventional fluid meeting the viscosity requirements.


I'll go the Castrol route then as it's a lot cheaper than the Ford and as you say it wouldn't meet the spec without being the real deal.
I would be interested in seeing the spec sheet if it doesn't cost much money (just for pure interest) would it be OK to PM me where I could buy said information? I don't want to break any rules as I like this forum.
Thank you for making a helpful post that has taken away any doubt I'm putting the right lubricant into my transaxle.

 

[galaxy333]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
The reason I don't put the dealer Ford oil in is because I don't know who makes it and it doesn't say fill for life either, I would probably use the Castrol as it has the Ford spec on it but again doesn't say fill for life, the Fuchs looks close (just on the 100c spec) but doesn't have the Ford spec but is a fill for life oil.


There have been many discussions on here about the myth of "fill-for-life."

In my view, anyone who thinks any current Manual Transmission Fluid is fill-for-life is kidding themselves when is comes to the reality of the chemistry of MTLs.


Again great information that will help me date and milage the lubricant when I put it in then I can make a choice as to when it should be changed again.
I have to look after this car it might be my last for a long time, and I have always had the idea lubricants are cheap compared to the mechanical damage caused by wrong choice or abuse by not changing the lubricant before it's end of life.
Thank you again MolaKule once again you've helped me on here as I said before I do appreciate the time it takes to write to help someone you don't even know.

 

[jaj]

There are a couple of companies on the web that sell the specifications - I get mine from SAIGLobal. They're about $20USD or so each. The specs themselves are dry as dust.

 

[galaxy333]

Originally Posted By: jaj
There are a couple of companies on the web that sell the specifications - I get mine from SAIGLobal. They're about $20USD or so each. The specs themselves are dry as dust.


I'll save my $20 towards a OUA as my knowledge is very limited anyway, I just wanted it in the thought I could learn something more, it's interesting to me why lubricants are used in almost the same job but vary, for instance my engine used by Peugeot uses a different oil as to when it's used in my Ford, I found the reason to be different emission controls and Ford wanting extra fuel efficiency. I would be interested in knowing what is different about the Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 to other transaxle lubricants if you know and don't mind telling me (a bit cheeky after you've paid for it).

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have to disagree with that claim which is why I did not include RL's D4 in the list.

I have yet to see an ATF AW protection package with the same levels of AW additive as do the application specific MTLs.


I may try to call Dave at Red Line next week to get him to explain (around the whole requisite 'proprietary info' limitations of course) what it is about their D4 ATF which allows them to claim GL-4 protection levels.

They DO NOT claim that it actually meets GL-4 specs as an official designation BTW.

I would like to hear his explanation as well. What FZG or other tests have they done to qualify it as a GL-4?


Dave very simply stated that it is the robust add pack which they use that gives it a similar protection level to a GL-4 fluid.
He would/could not expound upon the actual contents of said add pack due to the dreaded 'proprietary info' disclaimer.

Again, he did NOT state/claim that it actually passes any GL-4 tests, since it obviously does have a different base stock than their GL-4 fluids.