Thanks for clarifying! It was the 2nd gear blocker ring that I had to replace in the T5 in my old Isuzu because the clutch material was worn out. As for the needle bearings, I was repeating what I read on the instruction sheet that came with the parts for it.
Manual Transmission Calling for ATF. Why?
- Thread starter 00scrub
- Start date
Maybe start a new thread for DCT.
What Common manual transmissions besides Porsche and subaru have shared sump with hypoid gears?
I had a '97 Ford Escort wagon bought new with a 5–speed years ago. The stick was my preference, and I had to hunt to find one. The owner's manual specified, and the factory fill was, ATF (Mercon), but the Ford shop manual for that same car, same year, mentioned using gear oil instead. That lends credence to the idea that using ATF in everything was simply convenient on the assembly line. By 1997 not that many Escorts had sticks anyway.
Wouldn't almost any fwd manual transaxle based vehicle qualify?
What does that mean, because it was simpler to fill every vehicle - automatic or manual - with the same fluid ?
According to Ed Peters, RIP, it was to eliminate the equipment and the "$90 guy in the pit". He also added it was a compromise and automatic transmission fluid has a lot of detergent in it to keep valves from sticking. Something not needed or the best choice in a manual transmission vehicle is my take. He does seem a little hyperbole discussing it and the video is old and you could critique him on some points.
My 1991 Ford Explorer with the Mazda 5 speed (M5OD) transmission called for ATF. I recall one winter, in SC, we had an independent shop change 3rd gear synchro and the shop refilled with gear oil. It was very difficult to shift until the truck warmed up. We had it drained and filled with ATF.
I don't understand your question in relation to what I stated. Since you quoted my reply about an automated manual dct that I don't consider a manual when making my previous comment that @Mainia mentioned.
Confused yet
Many years ago SAAB 99's used 10-30 in their manual transmissions.
Honestly I always thought it was mileage/drag/parasitic loss related.
I also always figured this was the reason for ATF in transfer cases. Circa 1980 (almost exactly) most domestic t-cases went ATF at the same time they also went alloy (aluminum/magnesium) cases.
In some ways it was a double whammy because an NP205 is ~150 lbs and used gear oil. The AWD NP203 was closer to 170 lbs but also called out SAE 30. However an NP208 (widely adopted by both Ford and GM in 1980) was more around 60 pounds and also used ATF.
Yes, Toyota was and still is the outlier with 75-ish gear oil. Ironically I use Amsoil's 5W30 MTF in Toyota t-cases to this day.
I also always figured this was the reason for ATF in transfer cases. Circa 1980 (almost exactly) most domestic t-cases went ATF at the same time they also went alloy (aluminum/magnesium) cases.
In some ways it was a double whammy because an NP205 is ~150 lbs and used gear oil. The AWD NP203 was closer to 170 lbs but also called out SAE 30. However an NP208 (widely adopted by both Ford and GM in 1980) was more around 60 pounds and also used ATF.
Yes, Toyota was and still is the outlier with 75-ish gear oil. Ironically I use Amsoil's 5W30 MTF in Toyota t-cases to this day.
My ‘86 Trooper II used the same. It was the MSG-5ET with the strange two piece transfer case.
My 2018 Jeep's Raisin specifies ATF+4 and seems to have no complaints after 113,000 miles. Shifts are nice and smooth. My old 2008 Jeep's NSG 370 ran MTF of a much higher viscosity. It had worn out synchros at 116k. I also changed it every 30k with Pennzoil Synchromesh.
So far, ATF for the win.
So far, ATF for the win.
Modern ATF has minimal detergents because it doesn't have to deal with products of combustion (blowby). He obviously was talking about the 1960s with the sperm whale oil based ATFs.
Some BMW manual transmissions also called for ATF.
Remarkably Mercedes has obstinately specified only one type of ATF for all their passenger-car,van and light duty truck manual transmissions (ZF,MB-made and Getrag units) from early 1950-ies up to mid 1980-ies - "Type A suffix A" (MB 236.2) and this recommendation is still valid today . Due to the scarcity of TASA nowadays people service them with Dexron fluids.
I believe it has more to do with TASA frictional specifics than anything else (never found an official document on the matter) .
Remarkably Mercedes has obstinately specified only one type of ATF for all their passenger-car,van and light duty truck manual transmissions (ZF,MB-made and Getrag units) from early 1950-ies up to mid 1980-ies - "Type A suffix A" (MB 236.2) and this recommendation is still valid today . Due to the scarcity of TASA nowadays people service them with Dexron fluids.
I believe it has more to do with TASA frictional specifics than anything else (never found an official document on the matter) .
That sounds like ancient lore - BUT there could be some plastic used at some point that didn't like certain base oils. Hard to know.
This said, actually getting "cute" sure, no willy nilly, but there actually is enough room to improve in this space.
Possible. That would be an easy test to run - throw a couple bearings in a can and cook on a hot plate at
operating temp for a couple hundred hours.
At Allison our material lab constantly ran these type of tests on many elastomers and fluids. That's how they detected some compatibility issues with the first release of Dexron VI.
operating temp for a couple hundred hours.
At Allison our material lab constantly ran these type of tests on many elastomers and fluids. That's how they detected some compatibility issues with the first release of Dexron VI.
I remember AMC spec'd DexIII for a lot of the manual boxes, they lived forever.
JHZR2
Staff member
My E30 BMW 318i specified that too.
Ultimately I went to Amsoil ATF-range MTL and it was great. Redline would lose shift feel after a while.
OP, Molakule has a good overview used in many threads.
