Management's response when asked about closing early (MN winter storm)

[tnt_motorsports]

"My boys" lol wow

I often refer to my 2 sons as my boys. What’s the issue?

Just my $0.02

 

[Dave Hess]

Last that I checked, those are not regulated.

You’re correct.

OSHA rules and regulations don’t apply to weather conditions for employees driving to work in a blizzard.

My employer gives all hourly employees 40 hours of paid ‘Personal Business‘ per year and it does not count against your vacation or sick pay bucket. So the folks living in areas up north with snow and ice will use this PB as needed. Big boss understands and doesn’t get mad.

 

[Hall]

Are there not rules in place in any given work environment which both promote and REQUIRE job safety?

No, driving to work isn't part of your "job" with your employer. Safety rules at work fall under OSHA while driving to work does not. At best, maybe the local authorities will declare a "snow emergency", if you even have those. Here, they have "levels" with different rules. I don't know the numbers and don't care to look them up, but one level is "drive carefully", another is "don't drive on roads unless necessary" (they don't define 'necessary'), and one is basically "stay off the roads" with the threat that you can be stopped or arrested or ??? Don't know.

Don't assume I am agreeing or disagreeing with that supervisor from this either.

 

[14Accent]

I will tell you the same thing I tell the folks at my work. We are not forcing you to be here. You need to make your own decisions. What I need for you to understand is those decisions have consequences so do what is best for you.

As a manager I’m responsible to run my part of the business and ensure we hit our various goals. I am also expected to enforce the rules for work fairly and consistently. The reason for not being there doesn’t matter if it’s a snow storm or out one night partying with the boys. Your argument could be used in both instances. Trust me on this, managing people changes how you look at things especially when every decision you make is critiqued to the hills. Fair and consistent will help guide the way.

Just my $0.02

I apologize if I came across as flippant. I completely agree that management is held to a standard, and that every rung of the ladder needs to be in place.

However, your argument that "one needs to understand the consequences of their actions" is not black and white. Being chastised for choosing one's personal safety RE: travel conditions should not be punished, within reason. As has been stated, any "reason" stands to be abused. This is yet another scenario where common sense should prevail.

 

[atikovi]

We're all more than capable of navigating a winter storm, however snow DEPTH presents much less of an issue than snow DRIFTS. They're predicting 30-40 MPH winds at least into tomorrow morning.

I've already decided that if management made the idiotic decision to be open tomorrow that I'd be calling in.

If nobody is going to be out in those conditions, how will they bring cars to get worked on? I assume you get paid book rate, so if you stay home you will get paid as much as you would if you came in and there was nothing to work on. Why is calling in a problem then?

 

[Hall]

Workers are starting to realize they have power again.

Not really. They have one option - follow the rules or find another job.

When I worked in healthcare (at a hospital) we were contractually obligated to have someone at facility for hurricane coverage.

I think it was late December ('22) and the weather-guessers predicted hell was going to freeze over, white death, end-of-the-world snowfall and my wife was scheduled to work (RN). If it got bad enough, the next shift workers may or may not make it in and the hospital apparently can "force" employees already there to stay. On one hand, my wife didn't like the idea but on the other hand, she said "they're paying me if they make me stay". She took pajamas, toothpaste/toothbrush, and our air mattress !!

I don't consider commuting through dangerous and ill-advised conditions to be "personal business". I view it as a required activity, enforced solely by said job by use of various tactics.

You might not consider it personal business, i.e. work, but your state, the federal gov't, etc do not. Are you on the clock while you're driving in ? Are you driving a company car or do you get reimbursed for your mileage ?

 

[tnt_motorsports]

I apologize if I came across as flippant. I completely agree that management is held to a standard, and that every rung of the ladder needs to be in place.

However, your argument that "one needs to understand the consequences of their actions" is not black and white. Being chastised for choosing one's personal safety RE: travel conditions should not be punished, within reason. As has been stated, any "reason" stands to be abused. This is yet another scenario where common sense should prevail.

No need to apologize I think it’s a good discussion really.

I would ask you to take a step back and look at the big picture. You are making a gross assumption that travel will be hazardous and that the management should close the shop. Then you rail on management for being inconsiderate roughly 12 hours before you need to navigate this weather in the morning. No one knows what it will be like in the morning. Heck the last snow day they did here (last week) it rained! I believe this school mentality and environment is only empowering more of this why are we closing outcry.

Maybe next time you could ask the manager what does the criteria need to be to consider closing the store?

Just my $0.02

 

[Hall]

If nobody is going to be out in those conditions, how will they bring cars to get worked on?

Vehicles already there

 

[4WD]

Not really. They have one option - follow the rules or find another job.


I think it was late December ('22) and the weather-guessers predicted hell was going to freeze over, white death, end-of-the-world snowfall and my wife was scheduled to work (RN). If it got bad enough, the next shift workers may or may not make it in and the hospital apparently can "force" employees already there to stay. On one hand, my wife didn't like the idea but on the other hand, she said "they're paying me if they make me stay". She took pajamas, toothpaste/toothbrush, and our air mattress !!


You might not consider it personal business, i.e. work, but your state, the federal gov't, etc do not. Are you on the clock while you're driving in ? Are you driving a company car or do you get reimbursed for your mileage ?

And when I answer yes - I can’t use a cell phone while driving - that’s how company rules go …

 

[Hall]

Heck the last snow day they did here (last week) it rained!

Kid's school announced at around 8:30pm that they'd be closed the following day because of a weather forecast. We ended up getting maybe 1" of snow...

 

[14Accent]

No need to apologize I think it’s a good discussion really.

I would ask you to take a step back and look at the big picture. You are making a gross assumption that travel will be hazardous and that the management should close the shop. Then you rail on management for being inconsiderate roughly 12 hours before you need to navigate this weather in the morning. No one knows what it will be like in the morning. Heck the last snow day they did here (last week) it rained! I believe this school mentality and environment is only empowering more of this why are we closing outcry.

Maybe next time you could ask the manager what does the criteria need to be to consider closing the store?

Just my $0.02

One thing: I'm not making assumptions. The first round of this storm hit yesterday afternoon and dropped 2-4 inches by midnight Wednesday. We had a lull from midnight until about 3pm (30mph winds aside) at which point the snow started again.

I test drive 6-20 vehicles every day. I have the benefit of gauging road conditions on an hourly basis. I'm not basing my opinion on future events, I'm basing them on a combination of first hand knowledge and reporting from those in the field.

 

[14Accent]

Vehicles already there

No work in progress as of 330 this afternoon. All 3 techs were caught up, and work on the books can easily push as far out as next week

 

[Dave Hess]

I apologize if I came across as flippant. I completely agree that management is held to a standard, and that every rung of the ladder needs to be in place.

However, your argument that "one needs to understand the consequences of their actions" is not black and white. Being chastised for choosing one's personal safety RE: travel conditions should not be punished, within reason. As has been stated, any "reason" stands to be abused. This is yet another scenario where common sense should prevail.

Yes, common sense and respect for safety of the employees.

Sad the guy would not tell everyone to stay home and don’t risk it on the dangerous roadways.

 

[bullwinkle]

My main question would be-is this manager going to come in, no matter what? I always try to come in, but if your county declares the Level 3 snow emergency (or equivalent in your state), you can be subject to arrest-and, I believe, your car insurance MAY NOT COVER ANY ACCIDENT you have! My company doesn’t want company vehicles on the road then, too much potential legal exposure. My stuff has studless snows on them (xB & Corolla) that would probably handle up to 6 inches of snow, but a blizzard is a different animal.

 

[ecotourist]

Four basic things a leader of a organization always need to do.
Be first in
Last to leave
Do what they say
Take care of your people

I did 3 of those.

I came in a bit later than many of my staff. My day involved solving today's problems, which would take a while to appear. So by 8:15 or so I would be on site and ready to work. And always the last to leave.

My staff got to vote annually in a truly anonymous survey. 100% said it was a good or very good place to work for 10 years in a row.

We would have sent people home a couple of hours early if there was bad weather. You take care of your people.

 

[14Accent]

My main question would be-is this manager going to come in, no matter what? I always try to come in, but if your county declares the Level 3 snow emergency (or equivalent in your state), you can be subject to arrest-and, I believe, your car insurance MAY NOT COVER ANY ACCIDENT you have! My company doesn’t want company vehicles on the road then, too much potential legal exposure. My stuff has studless snows on them (xB & Corolla) that would probably handle up to 6 inches of snow, but a blizzard is a different animal.

If I were a bookie, I'd put the odds at at least 50:1 against said manager comes in

 

[14Accent]

Further data point: us technicians leave at 4 while the express lube is open until 6. So the timeframe of focus here quite literally consists of nothing but loss-leading oil changes. What business owner worth their salt picks payroll and operating costs over employees when the only "income" is a net loss?

 

[SC Maintenance]

There is a sarcastic saying at the plant floor level of a lot of manufacturing facilities I visit - "Safety first - until it slows down production". Bottom line is - the bottom line.

Desk, phone, tooling, employees - all items on a ledger somewhere.

The key - be really good at what you do, and when they do to you - move along and work somewhere else.

 

[oggb]

As someone that is self-employed I really wonder where all the corporate bootlicking on these forums comes from. Must be a bunch of middle managers and executive roleplayers on here.

 

[Blueshound]

I often refer to my 2 sons as my boys. What’s the issue?

Just my $0.02