Maintaining internal seal integrity

[INDYMAC]

The Auto Rx website and product intrigues me. I couldn't help but notice their prejudice towards group II+ base oils, not only for the application of their product, but for the life of your engine. I also realize that they want you to use maintenance doses of Auto Rx after the rinse phase, which they claim is more compatible with conventional oil chemistries than synthetics and synthetic blends. But they also express concern about going back to a chemistry (synthetic base oil or HM oils) that are harmful for internal seal integrity. Are their concerns singular, or universal? Legitimate?
I recently became suspect about the same when I changed the spark plugs on my 2003 G35 with 65K miles on it. I found an o-ring seal that had failed in one of the spark plug tubes (allowing engine oil to enter the tube). This car has been on a steady diet of MaxLife syn (grp III), PP (grp III), and most recently GC Gold (grp IV) since break-in. Unfortunately, this little $.05 o-ring costs me $500 to fix since I had to replace the valve cover at Infinity. They couldn't sell the little o-ring separately they said.
Also, has anyone tried using Auto Rx with a synthetic blend during the application phase? I just put a fresh fill of Schaeffers 7000 #703 (80% grp II+/20% grp IV blend) in my 2000 Tundra. I was wondering whether this would be a good time to start Auto Rx, or just wait for the next OCI. Thanks.

 

[Frank]

We ar not pejudice towards any oil. Below is from our FAQ

Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help?
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.

In e-mails to people who have rear main oil seal leaks and want to use Auto-Rx® to try and stop them, we tell them to use non-synthetic oil to firm up the seal material after Auto-Rx® has cleansed it, as chemistry in non-synthetic oil makes seals harden just right to effect a tight seal. After your leak is stopped, you can use any oil you want

We question why anyone would want to go back to a chemistry that will start the process of seal material degradation all over again. A way around this problem is to use 3 ounces of Auto-Rx® with each oil change after a rear main seal leak is stopped. Now you are protecting seal degradation and can use synthetic, semi-synthetic, or high mileage oil without creating a new leak problem.

 

[Curious Kid]

Well, having said that it would just seem then that the seals just cant take the environment for as long as we would hope. I mean, oils are suppose to be compatible or so we are told, and on the other hand we're being told that these same oils are degrading the seals. Perhaps it's more akin to changing chemistries and the imposed changes in influence each change of lubricant chemistry has on the aging/wearing seals. Wear is a matter of function, so it's inevitable - like that of the clutch material in an automatic transmission as it changes gears.

After 10 years the various rubber seals in my engine have served the owner well, and now require changing. Like belts, plugs, bearings and lubricants, it's time for a check-up and maintenance overhaul.

Happy holidays.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: Frank
We ar not pejudice towards any oil. Below is from our FAQ

Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help?
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.

In e-mails to people who have rear main oil seal leaks and want to use Auto-Rx® to try and stop them, we tell them to use non-synthetic oil to firm up the seal material after Auto-Rx® has cleansed it, as chemistry in non-synthetic oil makes seals harden just right to effect a tight seal. After your leak is stopped, you can use any oil you want

We question why anyone would want to go back to a chemistry that will start the process of seal material degradation all over again. A way around this problem is to use 3 ounces of Auto-Rx® with each oil change after a rear main seal leak is stopped. Now you are protecting seal degradation and can use synthetic, semi-synthetic, or high mileage oil without creating a new leak problem.


Thanks for the follow up Frank. It still kinda sounds like you are saying one thing, but inferring another though. Are you saying it is safe to use any base oil (even synthetic, syn blend and HM), as long as it is accompanied by Auto Rx as it relates to seal integrity? But this is not necessarily required if followed up with conventional oil? Also, how do you define HM? Is it strictly mileage, or is it based on the engine manufacturer itself (some engines sludge quicker than others)?

Would it be advisable to start Auto Rx after my current fill of Schaeffers syn blend? Your website seems to address the rinse phase as being critical for type of oil to use (conventional only).

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, in my opinion, unless you have some performance spec to maintain that requires some wizbang oil, there's little sense, economy wise, to using any fancy oil for 3000 miles. I believe, and Frank can surely correct me, that you just need to avoid oils with ester or di-ester base/blend components.

I mean, let's say you have some Euro engine that spec's some weirded out (probably common now) 5w-40. That spec is derived from jumping through many hoops. A 15w40 can surely endure 3000 miles .... especially if you're not TRYING to assure that you challenge every odd little spec that the recommended oil meets. 15w40 oil see turbos every day ..reach high temps ...blablabla.

 

[Frank]

No I am saying that we use the simple additive package found in non synthetic oil and group 111 oils to restore pliability to the seal and stop leak( cleaning the front& back of the seal material can be accomplished with Auto-Rx and any synthetic oil) I hope this clears this up for you.

 

[INDYMAC]

Not really. I'm starting to wish I had never asked these questions. Maybe ignorance is bliss!

 

[salesrep]

Miscibility.
Frank are you saying that your package is not miscible with pao stock? Therefore it cannot do its job with seals. But, after its job is done it matters not?

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: salesrep
Miscibility.
Frank are you saying that your package is not miscible with pao stock? Therefore it cannot do its job with seals. But, after its job is done it matters not?


That is how I understand it, but I am not frank. Which is a bummer since I just ordered a case of Schaeffers #704.

 

[salesrep]

Miscibility with our blend should be fine I would think. With our add pack the benefit of needing additional additives may be unnecessary. Purging arguments aside, we will take care of seals just fine.

 

[Oilgal]

I certainly understand, good old fashioned caution, and in fact I waited for 3 years before I finally tried ARX. In retrospect I wish I had tried it sooner however. The results have been nothing less than dramatic.

Regarding this whole, seal issue, all I can say is this.

Resilient material, used for making automotive engine seals, has to be compatible with petroleum products like diesel, gasoline and oil.

You wouldn't think of using a non automotive seal in your engine, such as those made for household plumbing applications, made of material that chemically reacts with petroleum products by softening up, becoming brittle or even melting, when exposed to gasoline, diesel or motor oil.

Need I remind you that automotive seals, are made of material that is specifically designed to maintain their characteristics of pliability and resiliency, when they are exposed to petroleum products like diesel, gasoline and oil? So why all the hubbub about the simple fact, that certain esters and di-esters used as or blended with motor oil, have an adverse effect on automotive seal material pliability and resiliency?

Frank isn't being evasive or in any way dishonest. He has absolutely no need to be. His product has been proven, to actually work as advertised, time and time again.

ARX actually does, exactly, as advertised. It has been thoroughly tested, by even those who began as extremely cautious and skeptical, and found to be both safe 'and' extremely effective. Not only will ARX, not harm your seals, it will even undo damage to seals, caused by ester and di-ester lubricants, as long as that damage is still reversible, and that isn't "just a claim". It is a fact proved over and over.

If you have an engine that was designed to be run on petroleum based fuel such as diesel or gasoline, then I can say with confidence, that your engine has seal material which was designed specifically to be in the presence of petroleum based lubricants up to and including GRP III motor oil, and so if you use certain ester and di-ester based motor oils you risk harming the seal materials used in your engine. There may be some rare few exotic engines, of exception to this rule, and yet I doubt most of us have one in our daily drivers.

End of story.

 

[Frank]

indymac-badtic. Synthetic Oil have what is called a "complex" additive package. One of the additives is designed to hold oil to metal-seals etc.

When you want to "clean" metal or seals. including stopping leaks
you want an oil with a "simple additive package" which is not designed to hold oil to metal or seals.

Auto-Rx does not swell seals we clean the front & back of the seal fabric and in doing so we lose pliability. To restore pliability and stop leak we use an oil with a "simple' additive package. When leak is stopped you should continue with a non synthetic oil (if you go back to a synthetic or high mileage oil) leak wil start again) If your still confused go to http://www.auto-rx.com and click on application to stop seal leaks. By the way we have saved Auto-Rx users a lot of money by stopping there leak. WE CAN'T STOP LEAK ON TORN OR RIPPED SEAL YOU NEED TO REPLACE IT.

 

[INDYMAC]

OK, I just jumped in with both feet. 5 bottles of Auto Rx are on the way!

The first patient is a 2004 Honda S2000 w/38K miles. The current fill is GC with 3K miles and 7 months on the clock.

The second patient is a 2003 Infinity G35 w/69K miles. The current fill is GC with
The third patient is a 2000 Toyota Tundra V-8 w/138K miles on the clock. The current fill is Schaeffers #703 with
Any suggestions on when I should start the cleaning process? I can empty or change the filters a couple of times and make some room in the sump right now for a bottle of ARX. Or, I can wait until the next OCI. The two current oils I'm using have PAO grp IV base oils to varying degrees.

I plan to use cheap O'Riellys 10W30 conventional oil for the rinse phase in all the vehicles.

Also, when you put this stuff in the tranny or power steering, do you leave it in there for 2500 miles and then rinse? Or is that not necessary? Just leave it in there?

Thanks for all your inputs!

 

[Oilgal]

Go here http://www.auto-rx.com/ and read the FAQ and or use their search engine. That is the best way for you to answer your questions and take full advantage of ARX.

 

[Gary Allan]

INDY, the problem with the GC fills is that it takes longer. Probably too long for the 7 month 04 Honda. Wait until you intend to dump it and put in a Group II oil (just due to the lower expense) and leave it in for 2500 miles.

The one with 1 month on it ...you could probably get away with it if you leave it in long enough, but the mileage is up for grabs for how long it will take to do it's magic

I'm afraid it's the same deal with the #703 YMMV.

Quote:
Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus SAE 10W-30 is blended from a unique combination of severely hydrotreated polyalphaolefin synthetic base fluids

 

[INDYMAC]

OK, it sounds like I just need to be patient and do it right.

I'll really have to be patient with the tranny treatments. I just put some very expensive ATF's in the Tundra and G35, so I'll just wait until 1K miles prior to flushing them again.

 

[INDYMAC]

OK, I'm into the clean phase on two of my vehicles now.

I changed the oil (O'Riellys 10W30 dino) and filter (Honda 15400PCX004) in my 2004 Honda S2000 with 38K miles last Friday. I plan to change the filter again after the recommended 1250 miles. I will rinse with O'Riellys dino for 3000 miles after the 2500 mile clean phase. Then, I will go back to Castrol Syntec 0W30 GC (grp IV) with a maintenance dose of ARX.

I also started the clean phase on my 2000 Toyota Tundra V-8 with 139K miles on Monday. I just added the ARX to the existing fill (1500 miles) of Schaeffers #703 (grp II+/PAO syn blend) and PureOne oil filter. I plan to change the filter after the recommended 1250 miles with an old Toyota OEM filter I still have on the shelf. After 2500 miles I will switch to O'Riellys 10W30 dino and a new filter (Toyota again) for the 3000 mile rinse phase. Due to high mileage, I plan to do two treatments on the Tundra and then go back to Schaeffers #703 with ARX maintenance dose.

I have a question about changing filters. Are we only concerned about the clean phase, or does the rinse phase warrant a mid cycle filter change as well.

Also, since my Honda does not see the kind of mileage that my other vehicles do, and I like to drive it in the upper stratoshpere (RPM's) on joy rides on country roads mostly, will it clean quicker (mileage wise) than your average V-6 and V-8 grocery getter? I ask this question because it is very likely that it will take more than 6 months for me to drive 2500 miles for the clean phase. I would prefer not to leave the dino in there for more than 6 months.

Thanks for all your helpful inputs.

 

[sprintman]

I believe the harder and hotter you run it the better. Short trips with cooler oil don't do the job.

 

[salesrep]

I agree with sprintman. Let it dig in.
I'd cut the purge phase in half.

 

[INDYMAC]

So, you think the original 1500 mile clean phase might do the trick in the little (high strung) Honda engine?